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Was the Iraq War a "war for oil"?

 
 
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 06:31 pm
@Fido,
Fido;112331 wrote:
We are not paying the full price for our oil unless one considers the cost of the military on the spot to make certain we get it...For the profits of the oil companies the bigger part of the price is laid on the tax payers...
.

This seems like an important point. And what does it mean for the honor of our military to engage in questionable wars? At what point do we invest these tax dollars in new energy sources rather than invasions?
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 06:34 pm
@Fido,
Fido;112490 wrote:
Well; that is a deep subject, and we don't want to go there without a lot of rigging...

---------- Post added 12-18-2009 at 07:16 PM ----------



Why don't all those who hoped for democracy for them now hope for democracy for us... That they could lie us into war on the strength of a majority they never would have had, had the truth been known- and still be walking the streets like honorable people means we have no democracy... If it were your family and one of them lied you into a fight, would you ever trust them again??? But some of their good friends look right at the lies and never mind, because it would take more than murder to make them change their minds...They are republicans, and perhaps born republicans, and they can no more call the party of their birth illegal than they can admit the larceny in their souls...They justify... They justify torture, and deny torture is torture... What men are these who would allow torture before a trial, and before evidence is found??? What kind of men would accept for another treatment they would not with a choice endure for a moment...What kind of person justifies attacking an innocent for the crimes of another???...

If the Iraqi people were parties to the crimes of Saddam, they were also his victims...He knew how to gather in every string and pull them when needed for a dance... To go and break their worlds to harvest an enemy whose crimes did not demand war is a war crime...Who are you to justify killing people for some spiritual good like our dollars, for their oil, and Western Law that holds them powerless before their governments???...

Do you think those people cannot tell death and destruction when they smell it...Iraq is too far to smell, but it is not the taste of democracy they have in their mouths...Trust me on this: Before we can breed democracy we must have a couple in the pen, but not one example among all the nations exists on this earth...


Has this anything to do with my explanation of why the Saudis remain?

---------- Post added 12-18-2009 at 07:36 PM ----------

Reconstructo;112503 wrote:
This seems like an important point. And what does it mean for the honor of our military to engage in questionable wars? At what point do we invest these tax dollars in new energy sources rather than invasions?


I guess at the point when we have a practical way of investing into new energy sources that will not make it necessary to secure those we have.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 07:06 pm
@kennethamy,
Quote:

Quote:

kennethamy;112504 wrote:
Has this anything to do with my explanation of why the Saudis remain?

You are asking like you will never know even if I spell it out on a sidewalk... The nominal rulers of Saudi Arabia are only the throne before the power...It is those people of Bin Ladin, the Wahabis who are serious business in that place...They have all the democracy they want, and none of the crap they don't want...It was the biggest mistake we have ever made to park an army there in the land of the Prophet... But the point is that our govenment can no more advertize for democracy than the man in the moon...That excuse is supposed to fool you...Are you admitting you hit a bare hook???
---------- Post added 12-18-2009 at 07:36 PM ----------



I guess at the point when we have a practical way of investing into new energy sources that will not make it necessary to secure those we have.


Are you pregnant, or do you have a mouse in your pocket.. Which We are we talking about because a sizable number of people would not call some one else's property some thing 'we have'...If you want to say we have to protect what we took; then that is the oldest law of property... They who own it took it and those who will own it will have it...But; if we should desire world peace what ever the prospect, should we not show a moral face to the world before they blow it off??? They hate us and for just cause, which we do not have...Democracy if the aim was genuine is not sufficient reason to kill great numbers of people and occupy their land and steal their resources...I don't think you can be a philsopher unless you are moralist, and I don't think you can be a moralist without giving it your finest attention...We might stand a chance with those people if we could show them a superior morality, but no one shows that to no body by going to war... Say what you want, but guns speak louder than words...
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 07:17 pm
@Fido,
Fido;112516 wrote:
Are you pregnant, or do you have a mouse in your pocket.. Which We are we talking about because a sizable number of people would not call some one else's property some thing 'we have'...If you want to say we have to protect what we took; then that is the oldest law of property... They who own it took it and those who will own it will have it...But; if we should desire world peace what ever the prospect, should we not show a moral face to the world before they blow it off??? They hate us and for just cause, which we do not have...Democracy if the aim was genuine is not sufficient reason to kill great numbers of people and occupy their land and steal their resources...I don't think you can be a philsopher unless you are moralist, and I don't think you can be a moralist without giving it your finest attention...We might stand a chance with those people if we could show them a superior morality, but no one shows that to no body by going to war... Say what you want, but guns speak louder than words...


I did not say we own those sources of energy. I said that they were secure sources of energy. No need to get into a tizzy.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 07:59 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;112520 wrote:
I did not say we own those sources of energy. I said that they were secure sources of energy. No need to get into a tizzy.

I only have personal property, but don't start saying we have about my stuff as easily as you say it about their oil...If we are playing keep away then that is a good reason to give them a fair price, and you will not get an idea of what that is until you have democracy and every vote counts, meaning consensus is needed to sell it to us...Give them a choice if wnat to keep the oil away from the other criminals to take it or leave it in the ground...That would not be legal either, but their they might be able to make something of it...Them exporting oil is like us exporting capital... After a while it will all be gone, and with nothing left to sell but our liberty...
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 08:15 pm
@Fido,
Fido;112529 wrote:
I only have personal property, but don't start saying we have about my stuff as easily as you say it about their oil...If we are playing keep away then that is a good reason to give them a fair price, and you will not get an idea of what that is until you have democracy and every vote counts, meaning consensus is needed to sell it to us...Give them a choice if wnat to keep the oil away from the other criminals to take it or leave it in the ground...That would not be legal either, but their they might be able to make something of it...Them exporting oil is like us exporting capital... After a while it will all be gone, and with nothing left to sell but our liberty...


OPEC sets the price of oil, so they probably think it is fair. Don't you think? Anyway, I am glad we cleared up this little verbal confusion between having secure sources of oil, and owning them. I don't think the Saudis want to sell their oil to anyone but whom they are selling it to, since there is no one else who would buy it. They want secure buyers just as much as we want secure sellers. Else they would simply have to drink their oil to wash down the sand they would have to eat if they had no more money to buy food. Not much food is grown in the desert. Only cactus.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 08:27 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;112534 wrote:
OPEC sets the price of oil, so they probably think it is fair. Don't you think? Anyway, I am glad we cleared up this little verbal confusion between having secure sources of oil, and owning them. I don't think the Saudis want to sell their oil to anyone but whom they are selling it to, since there is no one else who would buy it. They want secure buyers just as much as we want secure sellers. Else they would simply have to drink their oil to wash down the sand they would have to eat if they had no more money to buy food. Not much food is grown in the desert. Only cactus.

Do you think your wages are fair when you have no choice but work??? If we are buying oil under the barrel of a gun we will never be able to judge fairness...Fairness is not to be found in the situation... What we can take, is the only justification we need; so okay, we have it, so what price will we pay to hold it??? If the price becomes too high to hold in blood, then we will go back to paying with dollars... We could have always had that...We could have bought those people off a long time ago... We could have supplied their revolution and corrupted the survivors... Throwing an army into a lost cause is not democratic.. The people have better minds than to chase Geniis...If the govenment will not consult with the people then it is a criminal to the Iraqis, and to the Americans... Those people should be in prison... They have killed our army, and all for no gain...
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 08:31 pm
@Fido,
Fido;112545 wrote:
Do you think your wages are fair when you have no choice but work??? If we are buying oil under the barrel of a gun we will never be able to judge fairness...Fairness is not to be found in the situation... What we can take, is the only justification we need; so okay, we have it, so what price will we pay to hold it??? If the price becomes too high to hold in blood, then we will go back to paying with dollars... We could have always had that...We could have bought those people off a long time ago... We could have supplied their revolution and corrupted the survivors... Throwing an army into a lost cause is not democratic.. The people have better minds than to chase Geniis...If the govenment will not consult with the people then it is a criminal to the Iraqis, and to the Americans... Those people should be in prison... They have killed our army, and all for no gain...


Of course wages can be fair even if you have to work. Lots of people have to work, but that has nothing at all to do with whether their wages are fair or not.

We don't take the oil. We buy it. And, unless the West and Japan bought it, they would have to drink it. As I said. So they are happy we buy it.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 08:35 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;112548 wrote:
Of course wages can be fair even if you have to work. Lots of people have to work, but that has nothing at all to do with whether their wages are fair or not.

We don't take the oil. We buy it.

It can be fair if you have no choice??? Isn't fairness something people agree is fair???How do you do that without a choice???Because if you have to work, it is because you will not survive without it, and that is the same choice slaves have, and it may be little, but it is not fair...

---------- Post added 12-18-2009 at 09:37 PM ----------

Who buys anything in the shadow of a gun???Nothing bought under those circumstances is bought; but stolen...
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 08:50 pm
@Fido,
Fido;112551 wrote:
It can be fair if you have no choice??? Isn't fairness something people agree is fair???How do you do that without a choice???Because if you have to work, it is because you will not survive without it, and that is the same choice slaves have, and it may be little, but it is not fair...

---------- Post added 12-18-2009 at 09:37 PM ----------

Who buys anything in the shadow of a gun???Nothing bought under those circumstances is bought; but stolen...


Lots of people agree that their wages are fair even if they have no choice but to work. Why not? Why can't the wages be fair even if you have to work for them? In fact it would be possible to be overpaid for what you do, even if you have to work. And yes, something can be purchased "under the shadow of a gun". Why not? But, anyway, no one is holding a gun to the heads of the Saudis. As I pointed out, they are delighted to sell their oil to the West, since otherwise, they could not sell it at all.
0 Replies
 
 

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