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What Is Your Problem With Anarchy?

 
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 07:30 am
@Mr Fight the Power,
Imnot going to be drawn into being dogmatic in my approach. I may well have difficulties with the system i see in American politics and how large companies manipulate goverments .I dont like the right wing attitudes of many elite right wing Americans . Left wing in the uk is possible communist in America .Right wing in America is possibly facism in the uk. It was the sentiment expressed by the anarchists that mirrored my image of only the strong surviving in a right wing orientated state like America.My point is anarchy and right wing politics stink of the same rat eat rat society .Why should a corporate company be able by its strength drag the poor down further , i dont see any benefits for those who have trouble surviving now in your proposed anarchy.
0 Replies
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 08:15 am
@Mr Fight the Power,
I build no system. I ask an end to privilege, the abolition of slavery, equality of rights, and the reign of law. Justice, nothing else. That is the alpha and omega of my argument.
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, the first self-labeled anarchist

On the free market, everyone earns according to his productive value in satisfying consumer desires. Under statist distribution, everyone earns in proportion to the amount he can plunder from the producers.
Murray N. Rothbard

The measure of the state's success is that the word anarchy frightens people, while the word state does not.
Joseph Sobran

There can be no such thing as "limited government," because there is no way to control an entity that in principle enjoys a monopoly of power...
Joseph Sobran

It is unfortunately none too well understood that, just as the State has no money of its own, so it has no power of its own.
Albert J. Nock

The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
H.L. Mencken

"Anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others."
Edward Abbey

"A desperate disease requires a dangerous remedy."
Guy Fawkes

These are a few of my favorite quotes, the last of these being my favorite.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 08:28 am
@Mr Fight the Power,
He was no anarchist but another bigoted fanatic like the rest of his time..Catholics burnt protestants and because they lost power tried blowing up parliment..The british in their past have had anarchy in the form of tribal distribution and we still suffer from its history.We are weak greedy mortals and anarchy would bring out the worst in man, i have no doubts..When every man women and child cares more for his neighbour than himself then anarchy will be the result but till then we must improve on government and put a noose about its neck.
Mr Fight the Power
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 09:27 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
He was no anarchist but another bigoted fanatic like the rest of his time..Catholics burnt protestants and because they lost power tried blowing up parliment


The quality of the speaker has no bearing on the quality of his words, and statements can take on two meanings within two minds.
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 09:34 am
@Mr Fight the Power,
Mr. Fight the Power wrote:
The quality of the speaker has no bearing on the quality of his words, and statements can take on two meanings within two minds.

Any art takes form according to the one viewing it.

Through my own research and portions of this thread (the ones that are NOt repeated arguments) I have come to the conclusion that fear is more abundant than rationality. Xris and Nicodemus are correct in thinking that anarchy will not work in a fear oriented society. The point of anarchy is the elimination of that fear. Giving power back to the people. It has nothing to do with trust or with control. It has everything to do with peoples will to survive. Anarchy does not create fear in others, unlike government. Anarchy gives the people the ability to show themselves by not restricting them.

So I say to you both, if you are afraid of the results of anarchy, perhaps you should look inside yourself to see what you are truly afraid of before you renounce the idea of a free thinking populus.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 09:39 am
@Mr Fight the Power,
Mr. Fight the Power wrote:
The quality of the speaker has no bearing on the quality of his words, and statements can take on two meanings within two minds.
The power of the words are in the speaker...are they my words or churchills ?
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 09:40 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
The power of the words are in the speaker...are they my words or churchills ?

It depends on how you use them and who is listening.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 10:06 am
@Icon,
Icon wrote:
It depends on how you use them and who is listening.
Ah so we have a proviso ? surely any speech of worth can carry itself . My children have made the most profound statements but i doubt if you have heard them..The circumstance and the speaker are the remembrance.To try and prove the worth of anarchy by quoting a 16c terrorist is not relevant and only debases a debate."Anarchy is the name of a pirate ship and its figure head is a black leg."
0 Replies
 
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 10:22 am
@Mr Fight the Power,
What are you afraid of?
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 11:53 am
@Icon,
Icon wrote:
What are you afraid of?
The rich getting richer the strong getting stronger the poor getting poorer and the humble getting trod on.Early civilisation was anarchy and it only benefited the nasty, strong and devious..
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 12:05 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
The rich getting richer the strong getting stronger the poor getting poorer and the humble getting trod on.Early civilisation was anarchy and it only benefited the nasty, strong and devious..

Why are you afraid of this?
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 01:03 pm
@Icon,
Icon wrote:
Why are you afraid of this?
If this is your reply then you are also the problem . if i am on a journey and my friend needs help i hope i can be of assistance .
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 01:36 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
If this is your reply then you are also the problem . if i am on a journey and my friend needs help i hope i can be of assistance .

I am merely trying to figure something out.

The fact of the matter is that only reason you fear this is because you do not currently have the means of being one of the rich who get richer.

This is due, in a majority part, to the government preventing you from doing as you wish. If you were completely free from them, you would be solely responsible for your level and meassure of success.

So tell me, what are you afraid of and why? Do you not see the possibility of becoming more than you currently are? Do you lack the motivation or know-how? Are you afraid that you will fail and others will succeed because you cannot compete?

Tell me, why are you afraid?
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 01:45 pm
@Icon,
Icon wrote:
I am merely trying to figure something out.

The fact of the matter is that only reason you fear this is because you do not currently have the means of being one of the rich who get richer.

This is due, in a majority part, to the government preventing you from doing as you wish. If you were completely free from them, you would be solely responsible for your level and meassure of success.

So tell me, what are you afraid of and why? Do you not see the possibility of becoming more than you currently are? Do you lack the motivation or know-how? Are you afraid that you will fail and others will succeed because you cannot compete?

Tell me, why are you afraid?
I hope im not that self serving..i am not rich not comfortable but content..why should you think this motivates my fear ? I see certain armholes take advantage of our generous welfare state but i see more take advantage of their power and influence in society . For me the poor can be vocal in a democracy and influence government, in an anarchy there is no influence ...
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 02:03 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
I hope im not that self serving..i am not rich not comfortable but content..why should you think this motivates my fear ? I see certain armholes take advantage of our generous welfare state but i see more take advantage of their power and influence in society . For me the poor can be vocal in a democracy and influence government, in an anarchy there is no influence ...



When was the last time that the poor influenced a government? Honestly? Those with money and power influence the governments because they are the ones paying the bills. Governments are corporations for the people.

The poor in anarchy are those who do not have the desire to learn a valuable trade. You are STILL looking at this in context to the current system. After this entire conversation, you have still remained in the realm of a government run society and what anarchy would do in society today... You have failed to see that anarchy has none of the dependencies that government creates and certainly none of the shortcomings and brick walls.

You, by yourself, with no external hinderance, no obligations, no requirements, are solely, personally, individually, uniquely responsible for your measure of success. That is the point of anarchy. The power is in the individual rather than the mass. You cannot compare the troubles of anarchy to the troubles of government because they are completely different systems with completely different problems. No, anarchy is not perfect but it is certainly better than what we have now. There is no limit to what you can achieve save the limits you place upon yourself.

"The Man" can't keep you down because there is no man. The poor would only be poor by choice. Anyone with a valuable trade or service (which accounts for billions of different things) would be garunteed work, food and housing with no limits to prevent them from getting there. No taxes or organizations to take your house from you. No creditors to remove your car. You provide a service, you get paid whatever value you and the other person agrees upon. It could be a car or a house or food and a place to live or just a lunch. It depends on the service which you provide and the services which you can learn to provide.

The poor are poor now BECAUSE of the government. It can't be that hard to see.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 02:08 pm
@Icon,
Answer me this the orphan neglected abused with no education no power of character a lost soul, how does he survive in your Utopia?
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 02:15 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
Answer me this the orphan neglected abused with no education no power of character a lost soul, how does he survive in your Utopia?

The same way that the well educated lawyer does. There is no law so law is useless save for conflict mitigation. The child learns a trade.

Mind you, I am not calling this Utopia. I am calling this better than what we have with truly equal oppurtunity for everyone.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 02:38 pm
@Icon,
Icon wrote:
The same way that the well educated lawyer does. There is no law so law is useless save for conflict mitigation. The child learns a trade.

Mind you, I am not calling this Utopia. I am calling this better than what we have with truly equal oppurtunity for everyone.
"He survives the same way as an educated lawyer"..you really are putting a lot of effort in to dissuading me that anarchy is a good alternative.... Whose going to teach this ignorant damaged soul ? Have you read English history and the effects that an anarchy can have on the poor..Kingdoms are a form of anarchy, no laws other than those that are used to oppress where the rich and powerful rule by subdue-cation. Having no work was a crime and you would be driven to begging and violent crime.My forefathers fought hard and long to secure our freedom from tyranny and for us to return to the tyranny you propose, ide kill you first.Nothing personal mind but i would.
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 02:46 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
"He survives the same way as an educated lawyer"..you really are putting a lot of effort in to dissuading me that anarchy is a good alternative.... Whose going to teach this ignorant damaged soul ? Have you read English history and the effects that an anarchy can have on the poor..Kingdoms are a form of anarchy, no laws other than those that are used to oppress where the rich and powerful rule by subdue-cation. Having no work was a crime and you would be driven to begging and violent crime.My forefathers fought hard and long to secure our freedom from tyranny and for us to return to the tyranny you propose, ide kill you first.Nothing personal mind but i would.

This is not Anarchy. This is nothing like anarchy. This is a monarchy.


Monarchy= one absolute ruler with no limits.
Anarchy= NO ruler or ruling class.


You really have no concept of a world without rules do you?
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 02:54 pm
@Icon,
Icon wrote:
This is not Anarchy. This is nothing like anarchy. This is a monarchy.

You really have no concept of a world without rules do you?
Rules are made to control and anarchy would invent them by demand of the rich and powerful..I have a big house with lots of food and money if you break in and try and rob me i will kill you.So sayeth the gang leader, the king...dont kid yourself law is how we control, anarchy it would be the strongest ,we make them.. democracy we consult..Sorry your ideas are coookoo,. well intended but cookoo .
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