The Nature Of Compassion

@alex717,

alex717;31000 wrote:

nameless wrote:

There is no 'why'. That is the structure of existence.
Like the static 'frames' of a movie ('movie moments'), that must be perceived in a certain way, from a certain Perspective, to appear as actual 'motion' is happening on the screen.

This is an assumption, which is or progresses to be metaphysical. Am I wrong?

It is not a common 'assumption', it is well supported theory that has not yet been refuted.
For instance;
"The Laws of Nature are not rules controlling the metamorphosis of what it into what will be. They are descriptions of patterns that exist, all at once, in the whole tapestry."
and
"The four-dimensional space-time manifold displays all eternity at once." - Richard Feynman, "Genius; The Life and Science of Richard Feynman"

And yes;
"Any branch of knowledge, whether geology or astronomy, strikes mysticism as soon as it reaches any depth."
Mr. Feynman also said that
"quantum mechanics comes on as so off-the-wall that only a mystic state of mind can even begin to probe its mysteries."

Besides, my 'reality' is a metaphysical 'reality', so, ultimately, even my definition of compassion is, ultimately, metaphysically supported, as anything 'real' must be.

Which was all a rather windy way of saying, pretty much (barring the 'assumption' part), yes, to your question. *__-
Peace

0 Replies

@Khethil,

This post below is by nameless, just incase there is any confusion.

Without any research on what I don't already have in my head[1], I'd like to chime in on this.

Compassion exists chiefly due to the existence of the with empathy.
Empathy, the mental behavior of 'projecting' oneself into the situation (or feelings) of another only exists in those cases where we feel some sort of identification, affection, connection or protection for that 'other'.
These root conditions (ident, affection, connection or protection) come from relationships - or perceived relationships - with others.

My belief is that where these relational conditions exists determine whether or not a general aura of compassion exists (through ones' behavior).

Identification: The other is seen as 'like us', or sharing in some perceived commonality
Affection: Emotional desire to reach out and touch - verbally or physically - in that state that wants to 'connect' or experience emotional, intellectual or physical intimacy
Connection: Like identification, I see this basis as being that condition where there is a perceived symbiosis (actual, perceived, practical or otherwise) with the other.
Protection: When the self feels the need to 'keep safe', on any level, the interests of the other.

These basis - I believe - grow out of various conditions of the human animal on a social/relationship level. Humanity has only survived as a result of the learned behavior of living and interacting with each other (the lone human becomes dinner; a zip-lock filled with jelly and toothpicks - weak and exposed).

At the risk of sounding far too pompous, I'd like to give a personal example; when I was very young, I felt a close identification with the people with whom I lived: my friends, family, my buddies and girlfriends. Much later, as I was in the military with a young family, those two had the bulk of my allegiance. I think it's this way with everyone[2]. Many people are racists; extolling those of their ethnic background as the only ones worthy of these connections[3]. In any case, after much toiling in discovering my own philosophy, I've made a conscious decision to embrace humans, as a species and in their lonely, autonomous condition, as "what I too am". Many others, I'm sure, have come to this place too. I'm sure I've a long way to go and am far from perfectly, consistently-compassionate. But be that as it may...

... and it's only when one's come full circle in this that they too will embrace everyone.

Dang that's a long post; #&*@!... I did it again. Sorry. Thanks for your patience.

~~~~~~~~~~
[1] Which may not be such a good idea
[2] In that the classifications of people with whom we experience compassion change throughout our lives as our priority and experiences change.
[3] Other examples of negative identifications: Nationalists (too close with countrymen, too distant from those who are not), Homophobics (disproportionate identification with those of same sexual orientation combined with mental 'behavior projection' on those who are not), Political, Religious... and the list goes on and on.

Nameless, Smile

Excellent, just excellent!!

1 Reply

@boagie,

^^^ Thanx boagie. I did make a few edits, probably while you were writing this..
Don't you think 'empathy' is a moment or two of actually experiencing the Oneness of all? That certainly can be coexistent with some Perspectives of 'compassion', surely.
Peace

0 Replies

@xris,

xris;30822 wrote:

I hate to repeat it but compassion has a recent history so what caused humanity to consider its worth?

Recent? Define recent and explain why you think so, if you would.

Aedes wrote:

Compassion is a social phenomenon that develops very early in childhood and distinguishes us from other primates.

The bit about compassion distinguishing us from other primates can be considered debatable. Goodall seems to think chimps are capable of it,

Quote:

She shared with the audience how chimpanzees, like their human relatives, are capable of compassion and joy as well as aggression and sadness.

Chimpanzee expert urgers broader animal rights - News

as does de Waal.

Quote:

Bonobos live in matriarchal, egalitarian societies and are more likely to make love than war, leading de Waal to believe that chimps-and humans-are genetically programmed not just for aggression but for empathy, compassion, and peacemaking.

Primal Urges | Outside Online

Empathy, the apparent source of compassion is often said to be observed in different primates.

Quote:

Research showing that orang-utans find laughter contagious has shed light on the evolution of empathy and its importance for animals that live in groups.

Sharing a joke: empathy among apes | Science | The Guardian

Quote:

Empathy Is Impetus For Sharing In All Primates, Says Study

Empathy Is Impetus For Sharing In All Primates, Says Study | Scientific Blogging

and there's certainly much more, although I can understand how one could debate the conclusions of some of these researchers and their studies. My personal opinion is that at leats some primates show the same type of emotion and behavior in regard to compassion and empathy, but possibly to a lesser degree than humans, and experience it in somewhat different situations as humans, as they are wild animals, and don't often find themselves in the same situations as humans and haven't been socialized as humans are.

boagie;30787 wrote:

Deftil,

I not sure I understand your protest, are you saying that compassion is a metaphysical phenomena which you do not wish to consider indepth? It is fine with me if you have a reasonable explaination for compassion without resorting to metaphysics, this has already been done with metaphysics what we are looking for is a more grounded approach.

You weren't kidding; you really don't understand my position! Maybe part of the problem is that you haven't (at least that I've noticed) said how compassion has been explained by metaphyics. That would give us a more specific reference that we could use for making points. You say that compassion has been explained with metaphysics; could you point out to me where? Preferably something that has been written somewhat recently as advancements in science in recent times are likely to be relevant considerations to anyone writing on the subject.

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@Deftil,

Deftil,

" The self in one, is the self in all." {Upanishads} Schopenhauer's description of what is involved at the occurance of an act of self- sacrifice, it is the realizaton that you and the other are one. Identification with, evokes compassion for other, and compassion is the essence of morality. I am sure it is stated in a million and one different sources, but on observation it proves out for me, identification of the self in another human or animal, is the source of compassion. You might say an expanded concept of self, if there were not this identification with, there would no compassion, there would be no morality.

0 Replies

@Deftil,

Deftil;31243 wrote:

The bit about compassion distinguishing us from other primates can be considered debatable.

The PRESENCE of compassion is not what distinguishes us. It's the nature of the compassion that's different. Animals certainly show compassion, but it's much more immediate. With humans compassion can be much more abstract. Most of us feel compassion towards Barack Obama whose grandmother died today. We didn't see it happen, we didn't witness his grief, we've never met either one of them -- it's completely abstract except insofar as we understand grief and loss. That is a much more complicated degree of compassion than a chimp adopting an orphaned juvenile.

1 Reply

@Aedes,

:)Aedes,

The object of the compassion shown is still through the precieved state of the individual, the object of compassion. It is agreed it might be somewhat less well developed in some of our primate cousins, that is not really surprizing. I think abstraction in general is indicative of greater frontal lobe development.

Beyond Belief: Candles in the Dark is the third in an annual series of conversations: an ongoing project to foster and promote the use of reason in formulating social policy. This year, we asked participants to propose a Candle -- a potential solution to a problem that they have identified in their area of expertise or informed passion.

In The Demon-Haunted World, Carl Sagan wrote:
Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

At The Science Network, we embrace scientific meliorism (last year's meeting, after all, was entitled Enlightenment 2.0). We support science in its search for solutions. Can we better understand the neural underpinnings of human nature, our decision-making processes, the dynamics of trust and fear and human flourishing?

This U.S. election year, when science and reason in the nation's deliberations have been repeatedly challenged as irrelevant or elitist, and science seems to be estranged from society, Sagan's words sound prophetic -- an alarm call. Beyond Belief: Candles in the Dark is our response.

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@boagie,

Compassion is a romantic notion invented by faith and moral progression..It was once family or even tribe limited...remember your history when armies sacked an enemy camp..did you not squirm as they retell the bloody carnage of women and child..Tell me in history ten stories that give compassion a history..We have learnt compassion not inherited it..

1 Reply

@xris,

Xris,

It is true for much of history, the sense of a common humanity was rather undeveloped and life more as it would be in nature, brutal and short. Compassion however is a natural propensity, it is part of our biological nature, there were indications of it when we were hunters and gatherers when we lived in caves ect... It is a propensity which is evoked by the suffering of others. Many rituals of the hunting cultures where created to deal with the guilt felt at killing and eating their fellow creatures. One needs to remember that these people did not look at their fellow creatures as less than, lower on some evolutionary ladder, no, they had respect for life in general-and all life had a spirit. Today much bias has been over come and we can see a little more clearly, and what we see, is these consider human qualities are express in other species, true, perhaps not as developed but there, nevertheless.

1 Reply

@boagie,

I thought the the hunters view of its prey was one of controlling its spirit so that it would not come back and harm the hunter or by performing certain rituals it gave them power over their prey...compassion was never their weakness...

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@xris,

xris,

All of the above is true, but including their sense of compassion, why do you find this so difficult to believe, have you never been in a situtation where you felt compassion for an animal? Some spiritual disciplines carry this propensity to far, and are literally afraid to walk freely in that they may inadvertently step on some poor creature. There are people whom do not feel compassion, but I am told that is largley to do with them being abused early in life, personally I have known such people, do not believe they were abused, just something missing.

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@boagie,

Yes i totally agree and you have reminded me that Buddhism gave the idea of compassion to those who chose to listen..I still maintain i see very little evidence of compassion in western history or even the notion or idea to include strangers or the enemy..I may be wrong but the message of Christ was the first expression of an idea that compassion was something to consider..

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

Yes i totally agree and you have reminded me that Buddhism gave the idea of compassion to those who chose to listen..I still maintain i see very little evidence of compassion in western history or even the notion or idea to include strangers or the enemy..I may be wrong but the message of Christ was the first expression of an idea that compassion was something to consider..

xris,

Well the Christians will be pleased---------lol!! I am afraid there as overwhelming evidence to the contrary, if you can see the propensity in other creatures, does that not give you a hint of the antiquity of the quality in general.

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@boagie,

Not really, i could be persuaded but i dont see the concept of compassion being expressed or enacted..

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@xris,

xris wrote:

Not really, i could be persuaded but i dont see the concept of compassion being expressed or enacted..

xris,

Even if you take your own example of the presence of compassion in Christianity, realize that speaking in historcial terms Christianity at over two thousand years old is a relative new comer in the way of mythologies. Any established system will have elements of the system/s that proceeded it, though I am no expert, Christianity was not formed in isolation, it has elements of many many previous systems/mythologies from Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Paganism, plato, the list goes on, the Egyptian sun god ect... Compassion has played its role in the formation of all or many of these traditions. Just the fact that there were civilizations, possiable only with a morality in place, should tell us, of the sense of compassion present, for the essence of morality is compassion, and the essence of compassion is identifying with another, if you did not identify the self in you with another person or creature on any level, you could not feel compassion for that creature or person. The Upanishads state, "The Self In One Is The Self In All" and that is over five thousand years old.

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@boagie,

Well as i said i can be persuaded but up till now i have not seen much evidence except expressed by the few enlightened thinkers and definitely not in practice or in historic terms...Until recently even justice had little compassion and go back four hundred years it is still in relation to general attitudes towards each other in war and survival not exactly visible.Charles Dickens had to write tear jerking stories to activate compassion in his readers..

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@xris,

I believe that there are millions of actions that show the human race living in a compassionate state. I just watched the news where there was a car accident and three total strangers went to the assistance of the driver trapped in a burning car.

The lack of 'evidence' you see is a lack of overall impact. I believe that it is not a lack or absence of compassion, but the greater presence of fear - like being hungry or sick. The individual/collective human is reduced to survival mode and cannot express the compassion that is ?innate? History shows starving is common - survival is paramount to humanity and trumps the compassion.

The enlightened thinkers give us the courage that allow us to ignore our fears. I guess I am convinced that compassion is innate, but requires other qualities (courage) in order for it to be expressed. I do not believe the average human is without compassion as much as they are without courage or the knowing of what to do, say, feel, etc. next.

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@CMJL,

CMJL;80724 wrote:

I believe that there are millions of actions that show the human race living in a compassionate state. I just watched the news where there was a car accident and three total strangers went to the assistance of the driver trapped in a burning car.

The lack of 'evidence' you see is a lack of overall impact. I believe that it is not a lack or absence of compassion, but the greater presence of fear - like being hungry or sick. The individual/collective human is reduced to survival mode and cannot express the compassion that is ?innate? History shows starving is common - survival is paramount to humanity and trumps the compassion.

The enlightened thinkers give us the courage that allow us to ignore our fears. I guess I am convinced that compassion is innate, but requires other qualities (courage) in order for it to be expressed. I do not believe the average human is without compassion as much as they are without courage or the knowing of what to do, say, feel, etc. next.

If you had followed the thread im talking about historic evidence of mercy,compassion.I have stated, i feel it is a reasonable modern phenomena.

1 Reply

@xris,

I agree that it seems that compassion is a recent historical development, but what I think what is 'recent history' is the capacity to rise above survival mode - which allows for further expression of compassion.

I guess I believe it is there from the 'beginning' in the same way it is present in lower primates today. From this point of view it is not new, but has grown along with us - like our brains or something. Not necessarily the same thing as being entirely new phenomenon like growing a thumb.

1 Reply

@CMJL,

CMJL;80754 wrote:

I agree that it seems that compassion is a recent historical development, but what I think what is 'recent history' is the capacity to rise above survival mode - which allows for further expression of compassion.

I guess I believe it is there from the 'beginning' in the same way it is present in lower primates today. From this point of view it is not new, but has grown along with us - like our brains or something. Not necessarily the same thing as being entirely new phenomenon like growing a thumb.

Historically it has only been expressed within the family or tribe, only recently have we learned compasion for the stranger.Im no christian but the story of the samaritan is one of the first expressions of compassion for the stranger,it stands out because it is a story we would find strange as most of us would not hesitate in helping.It shows a how much we have changed.

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The Nature Of Compassion

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