The Nature Of Compassion

@boagie,

"Compassion means that we recognise their need for their present condition, and give them our love and understanding." -someone/somewhere

1 Reply

@nameless,

Nameless,

So what is it about the other that you recognize, that you understand that their nature/being is perhaps in peril within a given context? I guess what I mean is, why is not that individual consider simply as an object. There are people in our midst that do experience others as objects, thus evoking no real compassion.

2 Replies

@boagie,

I do think compassion can be explained without resorting to metaphysics.

Our brain is made of material stuff and uses it in ways that seem quite amazing to us, yet are completely the result of physical processes. Moral feelings and compassion can possibly be explained by evolutionary (see Evolutionary Psychology) or cultural (see Kohlber'g Moral Stages) processes and understood through game theory (see iterated prisoner's dilemma) in such a way that I don't see as needing to require any metaphysical explanation.

2 Replies

@Deftil,

Can an amateur put his half penny in..why is compassion a reasonably modern phenomena...I cant recall the Roman empire has having a notion on the concept..did christianity kick start the notion..I am here also to learn...

1 Reply

@Deftil,

Deftil,

Those are some pretty impressive sources but, you have not given me really anything to work with from the above material. What is compassion, how does it move one to feel for the plight of another?

1 Reply

@xris,

Xris,

Well its orgin probably goes a very very long way back, before civilization, for we do see it also in our animal cousins.

0 Replies

@boagie,

boagie;30761 wrote:

Nameless,

So what is it about the other that you recognize, that you understand that their nature/being is perhaps in peril within a given context? I guess what I mean is, why is not that individual consider simply as an object. There are people in our midst that do experience others as objects, thus evoking no real compassion.

Boagie, I'm trying to understand your question and having a difficult time. Can you please rephrase it for me?
I don't see someone as necessarily in peril in their condition, it is for them to define 'reril' and ask for assistence if they wish/need.
I don't see people as 'objects' and cannot see the relevence of the reference.
I defined what I consider to be 'real compassion', to me; more of an egoless empathic state then an egoic state of "let me do this and that for you so you can be almost as 'good', 'fed', 'clothed', 'pretty', etc... as I am."
If someone asks me for something, I might help out if I can. I don't find this under the definition of compassion, though, but I 'push' nothing.
Peace

1 Reply

@boagie,

boagie;30771 wrote:

Deftil,

Those are some pretty impressive sources but, you have not given me really anything to work with from the above material. What is compassion, how does it move one to feel for the plight of another?

Well that's what it means to "see" those sources, of course. Understanding what they have to say about things explains that to some degree, although, no, I haven't spelled it out in detail here.

Also I'm not generally a fan of explaining something that exists, with something that I can't prove exists. It'd have to be proven to me that anything metaphysical "exists" and can causually impact the physical for me to accept that it causes anything.

1 Reply

@nameless,

Nameles,

I shall try to put it in another way, well, ok, lets just put it in direct cause and effect terminology. What is the cause that moves you to act in a compassionate way, the effect is your response but, what effected the response, what moved you. There is no apparent physicality between the cause and effect here. Your reference to ego is not much help, there is no actual thing called an ego, it is a metaphor for human behaviour. If you are refering to selflessness as egoless, what does that mean in relation to other/object or individual to whom you are about to aid? As to the reference about people who do see other people as objects it is simply to underline that whatever is happening to others which evokes compassion is not happening to this individual, whatever the cause of compassion might be, it does not effect this individual. so, what is the difference between a compassionate human being and a psychopath, or sociopath what is it that is not happening to the sociopath?

1 Reply

@Deftil,

Deftil,

I not sure I understand your protest, are you saying that compassion is a metaphysical phenomena which you do not wish to consider indepth? It is fine with me if you have a reasonable explaination for compassion without resorting to metaphysics, this has already been done with metaphysics what we are looking for is a more grounded approach.

0 Replies

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

Nameless,

So what is it about the other that you recognize, that you understand that their nature/being is perhaps in peril within a given context? I guess what I mean is, why is not that individual consider simply as an object. There are people in our midst that do experience others as objects, thus evoking no real compassion.

So the ones who experience others as objects view themselves as merely an object as well?

1 Reply

@alex717,

alex717 wrote:

So the ones who experience others as objects view themselves as merely an object as well?

Alex,

Not real sure on that one, perhaps we have a psychologist or two who might want to jump in here and answer that question. My guess would be that their identity and self-interest are quite intact.

1 Reply

@boagie,

Well, I'm a therapist and most who have antagonistic or mere un-egalitarian views about others usually view themselves as aware and spiritual(though unsure and skeptical at times), just they usually have predispositions about the general public/persons that cause them to view them as objects, commonly resulting from social trauma or seclusion.

1 Reply

@boagie,

boagie;30784 wrote:

Nameles,

I shall try to put it in another way, well, ok, lets just put it in direct cause and effect terminology.

Sorry, but I cannot put it in 'cause and effect' terminology, as I find such medieval concepts to be scientifically obsolete.
I will attempt to 'translate' and respond to your comments in terms that have meaning to me.

Quote:

What is the cause that moves you to act in a compassionate way,

Sometimes I am 'compassionate', sometimes I am not (realizing that there is, of course, a whole spectrum). I find an inverse ratio with the presence/state of ego and the state of compassion. The 'wave' is not the 'cause' of the 'trough' any more than the trough is the 'cause' of the wave. They are mutually arising features of the same event.

Quote:

the effect is your response but,

I understand how it can be seen as such, but...

Quote:

what effected the response, what moved you.

Nothing. All is inherent in the structure of the universe at the moment of observation.

Quote:

Your reference to ego is not much help, there is no actual thing called an ego, it is a metaphor for human behaviour.

It is a Perspective by which/through which we view existence and 'self', at times.

Quote:

If you are refering to selflessness as egoless, what does that mean in relation to other/object or individual to whom you are about to aid?

'Self'lessness is egolessness, to whatever degree.
My definition of 'compassion' did not include anything about physically 'aiding' anyone. 'Aid', as such, is not necessarily 'compassionate'.
Offering and pushing unrequested aid (generally) is an egoic act, supporting one's (egoic illusion of) superiority.
The less ego, the less 'imagined isolation/autonomy' from others, the more inclusive of others in the notion of 'self'.

Quote:

that whatever is happening to others which evokes compassion

If you accept the linear, 'cause and effect' notion, which i reject as invalid from/for this Perspective.

Quote:

As to the reference about people who do see other people as objects it is simply to underline that whatever is happening to others which evokes compassion is not happening to this individual, whatever the cause of compassion might be, it does not effect this individual. so, what is the difference between a compassionate human being and a psychopath, or sociopath what is it that is not happening to the sociopath?

As i said earlier, there is no 'cause' for 'comapassion'. Somemoments, some people are in a state of compassion, some moments not. Some people more then others, some less, all a beautiful continuum. No cause, no effect, no linearity, just the nature of existence at the moment of observation.
We have an egoic propensity to label people; psychopath, sociopath, saint, who are simply a bit farther along on the continuum than we imagine ourselves to be.

1 Reply

@alex717,

Alex,

I do not think we are talking about the same people. I have known a number of people whom could be termed psychopaths or their new name sociopaths, spiritual would be the last thing I would consider part of their personalities. There is no compassion there, no conscience, it is quite disturbing at first because you tend to believe that everyone is functioning along the same lines, not these people. they are quite different.

2 Replies

@boagie,

Nameless,

I have no idea where to begin to try and understand your postion. We've been down this road before. Your theory always tends to be a show stopper. No offense but, to me at least it does not make any sense whatsoever. Indeed it is the alpha and omega of any topic, perhaps it is just above my head but, I would imagine it is above the heads of the majority here. If you wish to be understood, why not take it to a more profesionally inclined philosophy site?

1 Reply

@boagie,

boagie;30798 wrote:

Nameless,
I have no idea where to begin to try and understand your postion. We've been down this road before. Your theory always tends to be a show stopper.
(Why, do you suppose? -n)
No offense but, to me at least it does not make any sense whatsoever. Indeed it is the alpha and omega of any topic, perhaps it is just above my head but, I would imagine it is above the heads of the majority here. If you wish to be understood, why not take it to a more profesionally inclined philosophy site?

Boagie, perhaps I am not speaking to the 'majority', for whom you seem to feel qualified to speak. I am speaking to anyone who might now or now or now find meaning in my words.
I offer another Perspective that, initially, seems to be rather antithetical, though not 'lesser' or 'morer' than youPerspective. Can we not simply accept that without suggesting that I take it, for whatever it is worth, and, as you suggest, go away. Whats going on here? This is a philosophy/critical thought site. It is proper to tell a different Perspective to leave? Why would you do that? Does this Perspective make you uncomfortable? Would that be "my fault/responsibility"?
And if you already understood 'this' Perspective regarding 'cause and effect', why would you couch your response/questions in such terms, and so 'specifically'? If you knew of the Perspectival 'conflict', could you not have phrased your comments in less 'inflamatory' (to you, anyway) language?
Is it possible that what I offer is more in line with the true basic nature of existence, and will replace your notions (is already replacing them in science) of 'c&e'?
Do you think that asking me to leave, again, will further the critically thoughtful conversation and understandings here?
As a 'super moderator' you can certainly ban me, I guess, if you feel that you have need/reason (take your choice).
There are those who understand what I say, with similar Perspective. Some find food for thought (and perhaps some amusement). Should I leave simply because you do not?
Lighten up, super moderator Boagie, breathe, live and let live.

Possible food for thought; why do you find 'this' Perspective so threatening?
It's definitely nothing 'personal' from here... we just see things very differently, so what? All Perspectives are unique. YouPerspective is as valid and necessary, in a complete description of this universe, as 'this' Perspective, and every other Perspective.

" Again and again some people in the crowd wake up,
They have no ground in the crowd,
And they emerge according to much broader laws.
They carry strange customs with them
And demand room for bold gestures.
The future speaks ruthlessly through them."
Rainer Maria Rilke

"Each progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand mediocre minds appointed to guard the past."
-Maurice Maeterlinck

As I have said as I must here, and not wishing to be your show stopper, I'll just duck out the door on this, your thread, as a courtesy.
If anyone wishes to discuss this with me, you are welcome to PM me, though, it seems rather antithetical to the nature of a venue such as this, but..
Peace

1 Reply

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

Alex,

I do not think we are talking about the same people. I have known a number of people whom could be termed psychopaths or their new name sociopaths, spiritual would be the last thing I would consider part of their personalities. There is no compassion there, no conscience, it is quite disturbing at first because you tend to believe that everyone is functioning along the same lines, not these people. they are quite different.

I don't mean they are spiritual, I mean they acknowledge there is such thing as spirituality in the sense of afterlife, heaven, purpose

I know we are not involving these things in our definition, but these people are not valid to measure with normal functioning humans, they weren't born this way, they were influenced to be like this, therefore they choose unknowingly to not give compassion, they should be dismissed

1 Reply

@nameless,

Nameless,

Perhaps you are right, it is my own discomfort that I am projecting onto you. It does seem however that whatever the topic is, it ends up being usurped by your theory, which then becomes the topic. If you can communicate it in a manner I can understand I would most appreciate it. Your right however, if it is a limitation on my part I have no business making it someone elses problem, so, we will see if someone responses to your line of enquiry. Perhaps if I listen in, I will eventually catch the drift.

1 Reply

The Nature Of Compassion

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