PREPOSITIONS´ MESS !!!!!!!!!

Where's Roberta?

At college and in college, without 'the' mean the same thing to me, which is one who is enrolled in college. At the college, means being phyisically at the college, as in the college means being physically inside the college.

In the street could be taken as just hanging out where the action is happening, or could mean one is homeless. The same for on the street, but on the street can also mean simply being on the street, walking, shopping or whatever. At the street generally means you are at a particular location.

In church or at church would mean you are probably attending mass. In the church or at the church would mean being at the location.

As for a notion of arriving, I think that 'at' is more appropriate. We have arrived at the farm or at the island. 'On' tends to suggest being physically there.

I know our resident English specialist will pop in, but I thought I would start off.

My general impressions, in no particular order...

To me, on the street generally means along the edges of it, like a parked car or a person walking on the sidewalk. In the stree, on the other hand, would indicate that something is actually out in traffic.

I don't think I would ever use "at" the street. To me, "at" implies a very specific location. Thus, a person might be at the corner of Division Street and 9th Ave., but they are on Division Street.

For some reason, I don't know that I've ever heard anybody described as being "in church." Far more commonly I hear that people are "at church," as with any other event that someone attends as a spectator. Perhaps a more clear example would be the distinction between being at the football match -- that is, attending as a spectator -- as oppsed to being in the football match -- participating as a player.

"In college" is probably more likely to mean that a person is enrolled as a student, while "at college" is perhaps more likely to indicate that a person has moved away from home to attend university.

I would say that, yes, you do arrive on the farm. However, were you to drive up to the farm and wait outside the gate, you would more likely be at the entrance to the farm.

"In the beginning/end" vs. "At the beginning/end." This is mainly a difference of tone, I think. "At the beginning" feels more prosaic, more commonplace to me. On the other hand, "In the beginning" sounds like the beginning of an epic poem ar the first line of Genesis: it's more declamatory.

Re: PREPOSITIONS´ MESS !!!!!!!!!


Olá Nando, a sua pergunta é uma que enccontrei frequentemente em Brasil.



To use another commonly misunderstood preposition will make this clearer.

"at sea" is used to describe a common situation for a sailor, when he is not on land he is at sea.

We use this type of expression to indicate a more general situation than a specific preposition would allow. In Portuguese prepositions are not very specific but in English they are more specific than even naitive speakers realize.

For example.

Te encontro na porta. could be "I will meet you at the door".

"At the door" is different from "In the door" because "At the door" idicates a general area (near the doorway) while "In the door" would be more specific, perhaps in the doorway itself, blocking anyone who would enter.

When someone says "at school" they are generally referring to a common situation for them, when they are not at home they are at school or at work.

You don't use in school because maybe you are right outside the school, you are really trying to explain a general state of your day, not your presise physical location.

Now if someone is outside the school and looking for you and they cann you on your cell phone you migth say to them that you are "inside the school" because you are then giving a specific location taht is more important than the general area you are in.




The prepositions can derive from their literal meanings in this case to give a nuanced meaning.

For example, "in the street" sometimes implies actually walking in the streets as opposed to the sidewalk.




"He's at chruch" = he went to church, he is in teh general area of teh church, maybe not in the church.

"He's in the church" = HE is inside the church building.



At is more normally used for locations and colocation sometimes determines which preposition to use with a verb.

"Arrive at" is a more natural sentence in this case.



Hmm, what do you mean? In what kind of sentence?

Edit, I just understood what you meant. In the end generally describes the last part of something and at the end
generally describes something at the very end or after the end. But this is only rarely the case.
Até logo.

Hi Feglau and welcome to both of you. Prepositions are often a mess. My ESL students find them bewildering.

I think that you've gotten your questions answered. However, I suspect that some regional usages have crept in.

I'd like to throw in a few additional comments. There are two definitions of street. One refers to where the cars are. Parents will tell their children not to run out into the street. Street can also refer to the overall outside area in the city. If I had a cell phone and were calling someone while I was walking down the street, I would say, "I'm in the street."

As for "in church." I've heard this expression used frequently. "I heard that in church on Sunday."

You weird New Yorkers...

I guess we shouldn't start on ebonics quite yet, as in "You so street" or "Where the party at?"

When Roberta was walking down the street, she was using the sidewalk, which is adjacent to the roadway (also known as street), and talking into her cellphone, probably not using street language.

I think I need to do a drawing....

Hey Patiodog! Weird? Moi?

Osso, Roadway? Not in my neck of the woods. The street is adjacent to, well, the street. And, although I'm not up on my ebonics, I can talk street with the best of them. When I was growing up, street talk referred to foul language.

There's a bit in Roland Kirk's studio recording of Sweet Georgia Brown with some accompished whistler where, as he was wont to do, he breaks into a lot of shouting. "What road, you're in the city now my friend. You're walking on the street!" "There ain't no sidewalk out there..." "That ain't no road!"

Which is not intended to help Glaucia and Fernando in any way...

Hmm, even in New York sidewalks are aligned along the side of the road paving. Street can mean the whole stretch across, from building face to building face* including sidewalks, or it can mean just the paved throughway built for passage of automotive traffic. When small children are running around on the sidewalk parents often tell them not to run into the street.

*That is, if the building face is at the inner edge of the sidewalk

Thanks everyone.

Whenever you need anything, we will try to be around to give you guys a little of our bad English.

feglau,

It's been almost 5 years but I used to teach ESL teachers at the Wizard school in Pinheiros. It's a small world.

hi
i am a Chinese gril , i study in Scotland at moment, i just to here ,i really want to inprove my English as soon as possible.~~`

Lingling, Welcome to a2k. We'd be happy to answer your questions.