Does the attack on Pearl Harbor qualify as a legitimate reason we declared war on Japan?
JTT, the only thing you have convinced me of is that you dislike the United States.
US official documents that have been recently been declassified show that, between October 1960 and April 1961, the CIA smuggled in 75 tons of explosives into Cuba during 30 clandestine air operations, and infiltrated 45 tons of weapons and explosives during 31 sea incursions. Also during that short seven-month time span, the CIA carried out 110 attacks with dynamite, planted 200 bombs, derailed six trains and burned 150 factories and 800 plantations.
Between 1959 and 1997, the United States carried out 5,780 terrorist actions against Cuba " 804 of them considered as terrorist attacks of significant magnitude, including 78 bombings against the civil population that caused thousands of victims.
Terrorist attacks against Cuba have cost 3,478 lives and have left 2,099 people permanently disabled. Between 1959 and 2003, there were 61 hijackings of planes or boats. Between 1961 and 1996, there were 58 attacks from the sea against 67 economic targets and the population.
The CIA has directed and supported over 4,000 individuals in 299 paramilitary groups. They are responsible for 549 murders and thousands of people wounded.
In 1971, after a biological attack, half a million pigs had to be killed to prevent the spreading of swine fever. In 1981, the introduction of dengue fever caused 344,203 victims killing 158 of whom 101 were children. On July 6th, 1982, 11,400 cases were registered in one day alone.
Most of these aggressions were prepared in Florida by the CIA-trained and financed extreme right wing of Cuban origin.
Salim Lamrani is an individual afflicted with a virulent hatred of his fellow man. In his writings, he seems to exhibit absolutely no sympathy for victims of summary execution, state-imposed poverty, or exile from a beloved homeland. He trumpets himself as a researcher at the Sorbonne, yet a cursory search of the university's website yields no "Salim Lamrani" among its ranks. I wonder, Mr. Lamrani, how much are you being paid for your services by the Cuban government?
The fact of the matter is, Lamrani's extensive article seems more geared at lambasting the United States than anything else. This self described "researcher" targets the Cuban people if only because their repressive government has been lauded for thumbing a collective nose at its big brother to the north for nearly 50 years. In effect, Lamrani is shouting from the rooftops, his support of the Cuban government's anti-American stance at the expense of the suffering Cuban people.
http://www.babalublog.com/archives/005456.html
JTT, that "U.S. official documents" quote you posted (without attribution) my apologies. It has been quoted before, in a number of threads because it is so salient to many of them. I'm surprised that you've missed it.
seems to have come from
http://www.voltairenet.org/article132624.html#auteur121290
and been authored by Salim Lamrani.
So who is Salim Lamrani?
Well, this is one writer's opinion of Mr Lamrani
I don't doubt, for a minute, that the CIA assists various dissident groups, in Cuba and a lot of other places, in furtherance of United States interests. I also don't see such covert activities as "terrorism" on the part of the U.S. government.
There is a difference between terrorist actions, directed toward civilians, simply to instill fear or make a political statement, and strategic actions carried out by a government to protect its own national security and interests.
Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).
The FBI further describes terrorism as either domestic or international, depending on the origin, base, and objectives of the terrorist organization. For the purpose of this report, the FBI will use the following definitions:
...
International terrorism involves violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or any state, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any state. These acts appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, or affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping.
International terrorist acts occur outside the United States or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to coerce or intimidate, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/terror/terrorism2002_2005.htm
While I might not always agree with the U.S. government's policies, I do not believe the U.S. routinely engages in "terrorism", as the term is commonly used--the random killing of civilians simply to instill fear in civilian populations and gain political leverage.
Cuba in the Cross-Hairs: A Near Half-Century of Terror
Noam Chomsky
Excerpted from Hegemony or Survival, Metropolitan Books, 2003
The Batista dictatorship was overthrown in January 1959 by Castro's guerrilla forces. In March, the National Security Council (NSC) considered means to institute regime change. In May, the CIA began to arm guerrillas inside Cuba. "During the Winter of 1959-1960, there was a significant increase in CIA-supervised bombing and incendiary raids piloted by exiled Cubans" based in the US. We need not tarry on what the US or its clients would do under such circumstances. Cuba, however, did not respond with violent actions within the United States for revenge or deterrence. Rather, it followed the procedure required by international law. In July 1960, Cuba called on the UN for help, providing the Security Council with records of some twenty bombings, including names of pilots, plane registration numbers, unexploded bombs, and other specific details, alleging considerable damage and casualties and calling for resolution of the conflict through diplomatic channels. US Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge responded by giving his "assurance [that] the United States has no aggressive purpose against Cuba." Four months before, in March 1960, his government had made a formal decision in secret to overthrow the Castro government, and preparations for the Bay of Pigs invasion were well advanced.
http://www.chomsky.info/books/hegemony02.htm
The March plan was to construct "seemingly unrelated events to camouflage the ultimate objective and create the necessary impression of Cuban rashness and responsibility on a large scale, directed at other countries as well as the United States," placing the US "in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances [and developing] an international image of Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere."
Proposed measures included blowing up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay to create "a 'Remember the Maine' incident," publishing casualty lists in US newspapers to "cause a helpful wave of national indignation," portraying Cuban investigations as "fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack," developing a "Communist Cuban terror campaign [in Florida] and even in Washington," using Soviet bloc incendiaries for cane-burning raids in neighboring countries, shooting down a drone aircraft with a pretense that it was a charter flight carrying college students on a holiday, and other similarly ingenious schemes -- not implemented, but another sign of the "frantic" and "savage" atmosphere that prevailed.
[ibid]
I do not believe the U.S. routinely engages in "terrorism", as the term is commonly used--the random killing of civilians simply to instill fear in civilian populations and gain political leverage.
From Central America to Iraq
Noam Chomsky
Khaleej Times, August 6, 2004
Civilian deaths have been estimated at tens of thousands - proportionately, a death toll "significantly higher than the number of US persons killed in the US Civil War and all the wars of the 20th century combined," writes Thomas Carothers, a leading historian of the democratisation of Latin America.
Carothers writes from the perspective of an insider as well as a scholar, having served in Reagan's State Department during the 'democracy enhancement' programmes in Central America. The Reagan-era programmes were 'sincere' though a 'failure', according to Carothers, because Washington would tolerate only "limited, top-down forms of democratic change that did not risk upsetting the traditional structures of power with which the United States has long been allied."
This is a familiar historical refrain in the pursuit of visions of democracy, which Iraqis apparently comprehend, even if we choose not to. Today, Nicaragua is the second-poorest country in the hemisphere (above Haiti, another main target of US intervention during the 20th century). About 60 per cent of Nicaraguan children under age two are afflicted with anaemia from severe malnutrition - only one grim indication of what is hailed as a victory for democracy.
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20040806.htm
Why do you keep repeating such nonsense, this silly propaganda, as though Cuba could ever be a threat to the national security of the USA?
The documentation of the lies, the deceit, the treachery that the various US government officials were willing to go through, still are, to punish Cuba for wanting freedom and justice stands as a crystal clear indictment of the USA as a country of war criminals/terrorists.
The feeling for a country that has treated one's family well for a number of generations, I believe an argument can be made that not to value the U.S.A. for that largesse can be tantamount to ingratitude. Especially, if one's family came from some backward corner of the world, or a part of the world that gave one's family nothing but heartache.
Are you joking? Those missiles that were in Cuba, in 1962, were a very real and direct threat to the national security of the U.S. They were capable of targeting the entire continental United States. I don't know about you, but I lived through the Cuban Missile crisis--those were terrifying days. Those missiles in Cuba were real, and nothing about this is "silly propaganda". If you bothered to read that article by Chomsky that you posted, you might note that even he says the missiles in Cuba were a real threat.
In order to justify the charge of conspiracy to commit espionage, the government used the fact that Antonio Guerrero worked in a metal workshop in the Army’s training base of Boca Chica. The defense questioned the high-ranking military official:
Question for Rear Admiral Eugene Carroll about Boca Chica: “What information about the tactics and training of the US Navy could be useful for the Cuban Army?”
Answer: “To my knowledge, none”.
Questions for General Atkinson: “Are there any differences between our relations with the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union, and our relation with Cuba?”
Answer: “Yes, there are differences.”
Question: “What are these differences?”
Answer: “The Cubans are not a threat for us.” (Let us remember the attorney’s hysteria: “They came to destroy the United States”).
Question: “What is the relation between the fear of being attacked and the search for information?”
Answer: “I believe they use their intelligence services to find out if we are really getting ready to attack them.”
Question: “When you examined the documents, did you find any document classified as secret?”
Answer: “No.”
Question: “Did you find instructions ordering the agents to look for documents that could harm the United States?”
Answer: “No.”
Questions for General Clapper: “Would you agree on saying that having access to public information is not an act of espionage?”
Answer: “Yes.”
Question: “Would you, with your experience in intelligence matters, describe Cuba as a military threat for the United States?”
Answer: “Absolutely not. Cuba does not represent a threat.”
Question: “Did you find any evidence indicating that Gerardo Hernández was trying to obtain secret information?”
Answer: “No, not that I remember.”
http://www.voltairenet.org/article132624.html
My concept of "terrorism" is not "a false one", as you assert, nor are the definitions you are using particularly accurate when taken out of context. The FBI definition you cite does not apply to actions undertaken by the government, any government, nor is it even appropriate to apply it to a government. For one thing, a government is legitimately empowered to act on behalf of it's citizenry--its entire citizenry--in furtherance of national security objectives, and those objectives may include both covert and overt warfare, blockades, embargoes, etc.. .
Also in August, terrorist attacks were intensified, including speedboat strafing attacks on a Cuban seaside hotel "where Soviet military technicians were known to congregate, killing a score of Russians and Cubans"; attacks on British and Cuban cargo ships; the contamination of sugar shipments; and other atrocities and sabotage, mostly carried out by Cuban exile organizations permitted to operate freely in Florida.
And if you believe that Cuba is a land of freedom and justice, you don't know anything about Cuba.
The corruption of the Government, the brutality of the police, the regime's indifference to the needs of the people for education, medical care, housing, for social justice and economic justice ... is an open invitation to revolution. ”
— Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr., when asked by the U.S. government to analyze Batista's Cuba
Brothels flourished. A major industry grew up around them: Government officials received bribes, policemen collected protection money. Prostitutes could be seen standing in doorways, strolling the streets, or leaning from windows. One report estimated that 11,500 of them worked their trade in Havana. Beyond the outskirts of the capital, beyond the slot machines, was one of the poorest, and most beautiful countries in the Western world. ”
— David Detzer, American journalist, after visiting Havana in the 1950s
Quote:The feeling for a country that has treated one's family well for a number of generations, I believe an argument can be made that not to value the U.S.A. for that largesse can be tantamount to ingratitude. Especially, if one's family came from some backward corner of the world, or a part of the world that gave one's family nothing but heartache.
That same feeling exists for the families of gangsters that provide all manner of comfort. That doesn't explain away or forgive their crimes.
You seem to have ignored my focussing on the "ethics" of gratitude and ingratitude. I do not accept your analogy above. Do not tell me how or when to have gratitude, since you have not walked in my shoes, nor share my family history, I believe.
Quote:You seem to have ignored my focussing on the "ethics" of gratitude and ingratitude. I do not accept your analogy above. Do not tell me how or when to have gratitude, since you have not walked in my shoes, nor share my family history, I believe.
I'm not telling you that you shouldn't have gratitude. I'm telling you you shouldn't let it cloud your judgment, which it obviously does.
You should be more than willing to have war crimes/terrorist acts committed by your government dealt with in the proper legal fashion. Murderers, terrorists should walk around free.
It debases your country and if you provide cover for those who do these evil deeds, it debases you. Bit you know this, don't you, Foofie?
