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I have been reading all these different discussions pertaining to dating a widow/widower. And as you can probably guess, my situation is slightly different. My best friend and I have been friends for over twenty years and so you can imagine that I am quite close to her family as well. Her brother, a few months ago called and relayed that he thought that he was in love with me and he wanted to tell me before it was too late ( I was dating other people). He lost his wife in 2007 to suicide. To make the trauma worse, he found her hanging in their garage. Leaving behind their 6 month old baby boy. Being a close family friend, I was heavily involved with his packing and moving to a new residence right after her death. He does not believe in counseling and I believe the next few years were really traumatic for him. Within the first year after her death, he and I both separately moved closer to his family. We then spent a good amount of time together, as friends, talking. He confided in me as I was not part of his immediate family. There has always been a mutual attraction. I always just figured he was in a different place. So here is the problem. He confessed his feeling to me and we talked about seeing each other more and see where it goes from there. He doesn’t call that often and it seems as if I have to pursue him. Which I don’t like. He has flaked a few times on me. And he will call on Friday night to see if I want to get together on Saturday. I have not talked to him in a week as of tomorrow. For someone who says he’s interested, I am not getting that idea from his actions. Even though after reading through other articles, this seems very par for the course. I am thinking of having the “are you sure you are actually ready for a relationship” talk this weekend. What do you guys think? Are all the red flags there that I should just back off? Before too much is invested. Summarizing a long story is hard to do so if I left things out that don’t make sense, let me know, I will fill you in. Someone help please.

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@Gracy,

I'll be brief as I can be. Here's the crux of it, from my POV:

"... Leaving behind their 6 month old baby boy."
Whoa! All this that happened has to be so incredibly painful. Is he possibly looking for a partner to help him take care of his young child? There is so much tragedy there for any one human (even with the help of family/friends) to sort through. My imagination strains to think that someone would do this without some form of counseling.

However, some folks are capable, albeit a handful; however, are those that can do this without professional help capable of a loving intimate relationship within 3 yrs? I have no idea but you tell about his suffering over those 3 yrs. How is his 3-yr-old child doing and who is taking care of the child while he works?

A lot of lose ends there. I think after seeing you write that he 'flaked out' a few times that indicates he's either ambivalent or overwhelmed. Back off and let him come to you.

Let time sort this out without your forcing his hand without your being his safety net to open his eyes as to where he's straying off the path.

I wish you the best, but it's a tough road he has. He's not jsut a widower, he is the surviving partner of a suicide. Before the suicide , there could have been a depression that wasn't being dealt with. And why wasn't it deal with? Or was his wife's suicide related to wrong or badly prescribed meds and chemistry gone horribly wrong. Too many things to sort through to know where to start.

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@Ragman,

Thank you so much for responding Ragman. I know it’s hard to know where to start. I was struggling with trying to summarize it.
A year after her death, he and his parents bought a house jointly and his father watches his son while he works. I am an advocate of counseling but from what I understand he does not see any benefit from it and I have yet to bring it up to him. His son is doing well, a normal 3 year old and because he was so young, he does not remember his mother. He has expressed to me that he doesn’t know how to have an “adult” relationship. And he doesn’t want to act like a teenager by always calling/bugging me. I responded with that it is okay to act like that. That it is normal. But no change. I have made fleeting comments such as “try not to be a stranger”. I have also mentioned wanting to spend more time with him. No serious conversations as of yet. I once asked him if he had any fears going into this and he said “no I think it’s a perfect situation”.
His wife had been suicidal for quite some time and was placed in facilities multiple times. She was in one a week before due to taking an overdose of pills. Her mother than came in checked her out so that she could attend her mother’s 5th wedding. Three days after the wedding, she followed through with her quest.
He has expressed to me that anti-depressants is what made her suicidal. I am not sure I completely agree with that. As I mentioned I helped him pack and go through her belongings and I can say that she had problems before she ever met him.
I suppose I feel close to him as a friend and I can usually talk to him very openly. But seeing him on this level is something very new. And part of me knows that I shouldn’t change the way that I interact with him, because there is a reason why he is drawn to me. He has made it clear that he likes my direct approach. So maybe he is waiting for me to bring it up. I don’t know though. That’s why I am here asking for advise!

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@Gracy,

I'm seeing more red flags than before.

"He has expressed to me that he doesn’t know how to have an “adult” relationship."

He's waving the flag here and you should believe his words. He's warding off any deeper involvement. He's saying he cannot be emotionally available for more. You can take that to the bank, I think.

Others on A2K may have a different thing to write about this. The issues seem cut-and-dried to me. He cannot accept help from professionals. Perhaps it's because his wife's therapy failed so badly. She had a mom who was married 5 times..so perhaps that was a lot of emotional instability./ He deserves sympathy for sure, but do you really want to link romantically ro a guy who can't return the emotional intimacy you seek?

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@Ragman,

The answer to your last question is, no I don’t want to link to someone romantically that can’t return what I seek. That is very cut and dry.

But I believe you misunderstood my comment about “adult relationship”. He described it to me and his brother in law like this. This will be his first relationship since his marriage and when he dated his wife, he didn’t have kids and he jumped into the relationship very quickly. And he had the puppy dog infatuation. Which he describes as teenager behavior. And now things are different, he doesn’t know how to date like an adult. He now has a kid and he wants to do things “right”. And go “slow”. But this is REALLY Slow! Ugh!

I do agree there are red flags flying but I don’t know how to pin them down.
Thanks again for all your help!

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@Gracy,

I truly empathize with your situation. I too was a dating partner of a woman who, the widow of man who had commit suicide. He used his car (CO) as a means of his termination -- closed off the door inside their garage.

He was, of all things, a hospital administrator. Not that his position is the point of what I'm conveying - just an indicator that in some people's eyes he was seen as a success. At one level he was productive and was functional. In fact, she and her daughter were lucky they survived. They were at home and Fire Department had to save them as the house alarm alerted the neighbors.

I met her 3 yrs after this and she was attending a survivor's group.
My point is that even with therapy, this is an horrific event to recover from. Most people, not matter how hard the try or want another way, can't be emotionally available.

I hope the best for you and I wish I could provide more hope or more encouragement. You do seem aware and have your eyes open. That is a big plus. You can't go slow as you're already going slow. Perhaps try to date others. Eventually, time will sort this out . If he isn't getting therapy...and his changes towards moving on doesn't suite your timeframe what choice does it leave you? He seems to be going about this the hard way.

Let's see how other A2Kers are replying .

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Could I offer a suggestion: ?
Take the pressure off the entire situation by telling him that it's going to be a casual, fun relationship with no promises or commitments. Just one day at a time.

Don't be afraid to call him and ask for a date. He may not have the energy to even carry on this relationehsip. Grief is exhausting. If you have the energy to put into this now, go ahead. Otherwise, don't expect him to court you.

He does not believe in counseling, but how about a male grief support group? Pastor? Older friend? He really needs to talk about this somewhere, some time, to someone. But you can't be the sounding board for all this.

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@Ragman,

If you don’t mind me asking, can you tell me how your previous relationship worked? Was she emotionally unavailable as well? Is that why the relationship eventually ended?
I like to think that I am going into this with my eyes open. I believe dating others is probably a very good option at this point; he doesn’t seem to be leaving me much of a choice.
I did find out this weekend that he sold his wedding ring. Which I suppose is a step in the right direction. I have been so afraid of him putting her on a pedestal but that hasn’t seemed to be the case for the most part.
Thank you again for your input and I look forward to more responses. Hope you had a great long weekend!

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@sullyfish6,

Yes Sullyfish that is probably an excellent idea. I suppose if I am interested in seeing where this goes, I should just stick it out. I will not close off other avenues due to the fact that I am in my thirties and have never been married and have no children. And like the rest of you, I am not getting any younger. In addition it doesn’t sound like the odds are in my favor with this particular situation.
As far as his support group, I have not spoken to him directly about it. I believe it is strictly family and friends. And of course some of his “friends” are not the best influence. He does need to be able to vent. Maybe that is something I will mention to him though.
I am very new to this site and I have to say that I appreciate everyone’s effort in trying to give advice and suggestions to this confusing situation.

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@Gracy,

Sorry to say, that I baled out after 11 months. She decided to be more involved in the community of survivors group. She really couldn't make the type of adjustment I needed. She allowed her 25-yr-old son to call at any hour of the day, which included 2-3 am calls as he was on west coast and finished work at that time.

She was often sleep-deprived and there was just too much baggage, frankly. I know that I'm giving this a shorthand description as it sounds more callous than my decision really was. But she condoned her son to not deal with the loss of his father and not deal with his mom being in an adult relationship. I was choosing to let it all go. This type of deficit is beyond my ability. It's beyond my grasp and my will to continue.

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