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English Grammar Tenses- Help would be very much appreciated

 
 
talk72000
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 02:44 pm
@JTT,
Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 02:55 pm
@JTT,
She will probably go to Hong Kong where basic English and pronunciation would be the most essential and important things. If she lands there she will have a lot of fun. I can guarantee you that. There are nice beaches, fantastic view from Victoria's peak, cable car up and down he peak, Star Ferry, Disney World, great restaurants, great bargains (tax-free), new culture, etc. Almost reliving 'The King and I' fantasy. She is also a music graduate. Good money too. Shemighteven meet someone rich overthere and romance? Shocked

'Have helped' shows it was a continuous process - look at the number of posts.
The Pentacle Queen
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 03:10 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
Thank you so much everyone!

I had done them with the use of an internet site beforehand, and my answers seem to almost match Talk's and Osso's apart from for a few, so that's good.

Here were mine-

i) I’ll do it later. Future continuous
ii) I was there just last Thursday. Past simple
iii) I’ve seen him before. (???)
iv) He’s been engaged for ages. Present perfect simple
v) I get up at 6. Present simple
vi) I was waiting for half an hour before you showed up! Present perfect continuous (???)
vii) I’ll be standing at Waterloo Station at 5.00. Future simple
vii) By the time the police arrived the burglars had escaped. Past perfect.


It's so ridiculous I don't know this! I've never been taught it in all my life.
And talk, not that it matters at all but you said the other week and I didn't correct you but I haven't actually got an english degree it's a music degree with a little bit of philosophy, although all my subjects ended up being essay subjects anyway.

talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 03:14 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
We were taught it using the Cambridge system then we moved and the Oxford system kicked in. This was taught all pre-high school.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 03:56 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
'Have helped' shows it was a continuous process - look at the number of posts.


That's not really what I asked, Talk. I asked whether it was a possibility for BrE speakers to use the past simple, "I helped her ..." where you used/had used the present perfect simple.
talk72000
 
  0  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 03:59 pm
@JTT,
You are pointing out something that doesn't mean anything. My response was to the thread. My mind subconsciously tracked my activiies thus the 'have' appeared and not a linguistic trait.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 04:07 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
Quote:
It's so ridiculous I don't know this! I've never been taught it in all my life.


Not at all ridiculous, PQ. There's absolutely no reason for you to have been taught this unless you wanted to head off into linguistics or the like and then you wouldn't have learned these anyway except as how "old" grammar classified things.

There's also a little something that needs clearing up. People think that those who hold English degrees are knowledgeable in the grammar of English. Often times, most times ??, that clearly has not been the case. The grammar that has been taught for hundreds of years has been filled with errant prescriptions that made it, not so much the study of grammar as a memorization of etiquette, false etiquette at that.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 04:13 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
You are pointing out something that doesn't mean anything. My response was to the thread. My mind subconsciously tracked my activiies thus the 'have' appeared and not a linguistic trait.


Everything that comes from our mouths is a linguistic trait, Talk.

I see, from your description, why you used the present perfect of continuation. Isn't this situation and this sense similar in nature to,

"I've lived here for ten years." ?

Let's imagine for a second that you had only offered your help once, in one posting. Which would you have chosen then, the present perfect or the simple past?
0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 04:36 pm
Well it was probably very naive, but basically I didn't realise grammar ran this deep.

I don't suppose I could ask a further favour which if anyone knows the answer to it would be good (dw if not). How would you explain the differences between these:

a) I’ve seen him this morning. b) I saw him this morning.

a) There are a few opportunities for work here. b) There are few opportunities for work here.

and also-

Interesting and interested

Thank you
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 05:45 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
Quote:
Well it was probably very naive, but basically I didn't realise grammar ran this deep.


Grammar is rocket science. Using language is the most complicated thing humans do yet we do it so easily, until it comes to explaining it.

Are you teaching ESL now, PQ, or are you thinking about doing so?

How would you explain the differences between these:

a) I’ve seen him this morning. b) I saw him this morning.

a) is the present perfect of current relevance/importance, for NaE, AuE and I believe, though some have denied it, that this also works for BrE. There's no doubt that BrE uses the present perfect to describe recently completed actions more so than does NaE.

b) is the simple past, used most commonly in NaE to describe past actions, even recent ones. You can look at the simple past as the normal neutral and the PP for current relevance/importance as a language embellishment.


a) There are a few opportunities for work here. b) There are few opportunities for work here.

a) is positive in nature while b) is somewhat negative. Consider,

I have a little money versus I have little money.



Interesting and interested

Generally, inanimates can't be ___ed,

*The movie is interested.*

[* denotes ungrammatical]

Again, generally, there may be exceptions, "___ing" says the subject projects the ___ing to others,

It's interesting [to me/her/him/them/us].

"____ed" shows the focus of the subject of the sentence is towards someone or something,

He's interested in her/in the movie/in science/in this thread.

All, or at least most ing/ed adjectives work this way.



0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2010 11:56 am
@The Pentacle Queen,
I forgot to mention that in the British colonies English Grammar was taught the proper way - no colloquials with apostrophes. In Hong Kong they used the Oxford University system and grammar was taught in 3rd or 4th grade. The Hong Kong students can write splendid English but speak awfully. Get hold of a used grammar book. The Internat site I showed you seem too informal. In East Asia the society is rather conservative and old fashioned so be careful and don't act wild. The educational system would be modeled in the old British style so if you want to find out how things were taught in your grandfather's days you will find it in Hong Kong.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2010 01:21 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
I forgot to mention that in the British colonies English Grammar was taught the proper way - no colloquials with apostrophes.


There's nothing proper about that, Talk. That's simply misleading people about language.

Quote:
The educational system would be modeled in the old British style so if you want to find out how things were taught in your grandfather's days you will find it in Hong Kong.


Then they are most likely teaching a good bit of grammar that isn't the grammar of English.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2010 07:31 pm
@JTT,
The people conducting it are English. There are still a lot of English people there.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2010 07:43 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
The people conducting it are English. There are still a lot of English people there.


They're the worst ones, them there English [not just BrE] people. Smile

Ever heard of Henry W. Fowler?
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2010 08:03 pm
@JTT,
We used Fowler. We are not talking University stuff.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2010 10:52 pm
@talk72000,
I guess you were raised in Hong Kong. You used Fowler. That's exactly what I was talking about. Most of SE Asia is locked into these out of date grammars. In addition to being out of date, most of them had, still have, a bunch of rules, ie. prescriptions, which are no accurate descriptions of how language is used.

These prescriptions weren't even accurate back 150 or 200 years ago. They were specious from the moment they were penned.

Quote:

The Decline of Grammar

G Nunberg

Take Modern English Usage, by that good man H. W. Fowler, "a Christian in all but actual faith," as the Dictionary of National Biography called him. Despite a revision in 1965, it is out-of-date, ...

http://www.pbs.org/speak/speech/correct/decline/




talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 02:57 pm
@JTT,
Have you been to Hong Kong?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 07:01 pm
@talk72000,
Nope, I haven't had the pleasure, Talk.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 07:47 pm
@JTT,
Have you taught ESL?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 08:34 pm
@talk72000,
Yes, I have, Talk, for many a year.

Are you from Hong Kong? Do you live there now? Is English your mother tongue?
 

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