2
   

What does "there" mean?

 
 
fansy
 
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 02:12 am
Quote:
A problem would arise, however, if a producer needed to buy permits to make televisions in a country with a carbon cap, while no permits were required in a country without a cap. The television from the country without the cap would be cheaper, consumers would prefer it, and there would be no economic incentive to cut emissions. Environmentalists call this the “leakage problem”: just as a balloon squeezed at one end will bulge at the other, emissions caps applied in only some economies will lead to emissions surges in others.


What does "there" mean in "there would be no economic incentive to cut emittions"? Does "there" mean the country where there is no cap? Or "there" is simply used as in a sentence like "there is no problem"? I hope I have made myself clear enough.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 02:42 am
@fansy,
Quote:
Or "there" is simply used as in a sentence like "there is no problem"?


That's it. Maybe someone else can explain that particular useage. I can't, but yes, that's how it is used.
0 Replies
 
sullyfish6
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 06:39 am
television / would be cheaper . . and . . consumers / would prefer\ it . .. and there / would be incentive
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 09:52 am
@fansy,
Quote:
and there would be no economic incentive to cut emissions.


This is an existential there, not an adverbial there describing position. It says 'exists', and it is used in English to introduce a new subject; this subject is delayed.

eg. There are three tennis balls on the table. --> Three tennis balls exist on the table

... and no economic incentive to cut emissions would exist.

OR

... and economic incentive to cut emissions would not exist.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 10:14 am
@fansy,
Quote:
Does "there" mean the country where there is no cap?


You can tell that this 'there' doesn't mean position/place, Fansy, because the 'there' combines with a verb, in this case a verb phrase, 'would be'.

If it being used as an adverbial 'there', there would have to be another subject;

and there, it would be processed.

Here, we can tell that 'there' is referring to some place previously described and it is an adverb of place. The pronoun 'it' serves as the actual subject again, describing something that was previously mentioned.
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basenpat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2010 07:48 am
@fansy,
it's a subject of existence
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2010 10:01 am
Quote:
and there would be no economic incentive to cut emissions.


The dictionary refers to "there" as a pronoun used to introduce a clause or a sentence, but "there" is part of the phrase "there would be" which is a form of the phrases "there is" and "there are" like in fansy's other example:

Quote:
there is no problem


I don't see how it is a pronoun in that position, however. But if it isn't a pronoun, what is it?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2010 10:08 am
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
there is no problem

I don't see how it is a pronoun in that position, however. But if it isn't a pronoun, what is it?


What might be the difference between the there of 'there would be ...' and the there of 'there is no problem', IB?

there is no problem -->> no problem exists -->> no problem is in existence
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2010 04:58 pm
@JTT,
There isn't [another example] a difference aside from the conjugation of "be".

I was merely using "there is no problem" as an example of the phrase "there is".

Are you saying that "there" is a pronoun in those phrases?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2010 05:05 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
Are you saying that "there" is a pronoun in those phrases?


If it is, and I'm not saying it is, it's an odd pronoun. Though there are times when we repeat the noun and pronoun in the same sentence,

Carter, he is ... .

normally a pronoun fills in for a noun.

Existential 'there' is obviously a special use for English. Was there any explanation for calling it a pronoun?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 04:53 pm
@JTT,
It just stated that "there" is a pronoun used to introduce a clause or a sentence, and gave two examples:

"There are numerous items".

"There must be another exit".

But in those instances "there" isn't used alone. It's part of the phrases "there are", "there must be" and, as in fansy's example, "there would be".

Also, in the dictionary examples, "there are" and "there must be" are modifying the noun phrases "numerous items" and "another exit", respectively.

I don't think "there" is a pronoun at all in these examples.

But if it isn't, what part of speech is it?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 06:30 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
It just stated that "there" is a pronoun used to introduce a clause or a sentence, and gave two examples:

"There are numerous items".

"There must be another exit".

But in those instances "there" isn't used alone. It's part of the phrases "there are", "there must be" and, as in fansy's example, "there would be".


I guess it depends how you parse the examples. The first two words of "I gave it to Bill" wouldn't be parsed as "I want" [some grammatical structure unknown to me], but as, "I" [subject] "gave" [verb] 'it' [direct object] "to" [preposition] Bill" [indirect object].

There [existential subject] are [verb] numerous [adjective] items [delayed true subject].

Quote:
Also, in the dictionary examples, "there are" and "there must be" are modifying the noun phrases "numerous items" and "another exit", respectively.

I don't think "there" is a pronoun at all in these examples.

But if it isn't, what part of speech is it?


It's a pronoun, in that it's filling in for the actual subject which is delayed.
parse a sentence gives it much as I did, above,

Constituent tree:

(S (NP There)
(VP are
(NP numerous items)))

http://www.link.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/link/construct-page-4.cgi#submit

===================

+-------Opt-------+
+-SFp-+ +----A---+
| | | |
there are.v numerous.a items.n

[explanation of SF]

SF
SF is a special subject link-type used for certain "filler" subjects
like "it" and "there". It interacts heavily with
post-processing. Post-processing is used both to enforce that
certain predicates may not be used with "filler" subjects, and
also that certain predicates may only be used with such
subjects. SF is also used with a few special phrases like "to"
and "that" phrases when used as subjects.

Contents
1. "Filler-it"
2. Constraints on "filler-only" phrases
3. "There" as a subject: SFst and SFp
4. Special subjects: SFsx

"Filler-it"
Many verbs and adjectives take complements like "to+infinitive"
or "that+clause" (see "TO"; see "TH"):

1. I expect that he will go
2. I am glad that he is going
3. He wants to go
4. He is eager to go

However, there are certain adjective-complement and
verb-complement phrases that may only be used with the subject
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