Does art take away from life?

@msolga,

It doesnt require ability to draw, ability to blend colours or to find a subject matter of interest, it cant be criticised as missing something found in a work by the grand masters because it is missing everything...what emotions am I supposed to get from these two generational thalidimide victims who are obviously seasick.

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@Ionus,

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no-one believed your pretense at being a geneticist/geologist. What a blowhard you are.....

I dont recall even linking the two subjects. Are you nuts? I dont know of any "geneticist geologists" out there.
Im proud of my education and my various degrees and lifetime expwerience in academics and industry.

I have a feeling that Im in the presence of a "tea bagger" whose cheesed off at anyone with more than a GED.

Im sorry if I rub your nose in the facts of an argument. Its just my style to not accept bullshit and let it pass quietly by.You seem to have no acquaintance or respect for truth and evidence. You must think that people are stupid to just accept your rants as truth. I think that most people on this line are just more polite than I. They know youre full of it, they just dont seem to think its worth engaging in one of your interminable arguments cobbled from out of context seriate clips.

I realize that you are unable to argue the points and are unable to back up your claims (like why not back up yoiurclaims about Picasso in the 60's?) BECAUSE YOU CANT. Its much more your style to forget the argument, amke a few waggy clips about minutae and then continue with one liners for thwe rest of your argument.
Your feelings about Picasso should have some components of scholarship to be valid. Maybe you should look up some quotes by Gertrude STein about the early Picassos or words by Alfred Steiglitz as he he showed early Picassos. No, all I get from you is ad hominem arguments in staccato fashion.
Nothing of any intellectual value, just loud and boorish crap that comes out of the fevered ANUS brain.

nighty nite ANUS.

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@Ionus,

Look, nothing is going to change your mind, so why pursue it?
You are perfectly entitled to think whatever you like.
It is not obligatory to like Picasso, or the work of any other artist.
But a person doesn't have to be a "weirdo" to appreciate the work of any artist who you don't fancy, either. That's just silly.

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@Ionus,

I'm now thinking Ionus is joking with all of us.

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@Ionus,

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If Picasso was as great as you and your Schardonay Sssippers think, why didnt he do real paintings that demonstrate talent and ability ? This rubbish is a demonstration of hit or miss style to earning money....

Are you really this stupid? Im not here to relieve your ignorance, that should be a lifes work on your own. The mere fact that youd even ask something like the above followed by a stupid claim as you did. Doesnt it occur to you how dumb you read to someone familiar with Picassos work?
Im not a Picasso scholar by any means and I can see through what youve just stated. Picasso has a body of work that goes into nearly 1000 pieces (exclusing prints and ceramics and metal sculpture), and his Guernica is often considered the greatest painting of the 20th cwentury.

Unless we are in the presence of the new ANUS Aesthetic movement, Ill stick with the common knowledge that this painting is a monumental work. I realize that you need perdy flowers and a cat with only 2 eyes and that anything else is deviant. I think that youre too old to change so jsut keep slugging your Fosters there ANUS, your art is provided in sweet oblivion.

http://fcw.needham.k12.ma.us/~betty_morgan/webquest/earlyworks/earlyworks-Images/20.jpg

Here, just lie down, the doctor will be with you

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@farmerman,

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I dont recall even linking the two subjects. Are you nuts? I dont know of any "geneticist geologists" out there.

Well you did, my little anally obsessed art critic.

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Im proud of my education and my various degrees and lifetime expwerience in academics and industry.

I strongly suspect you are either delusion or have a complex about your lack of education.

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Im sorry if I rub your nose in the facts of an argument.

No you're not. What gibberish ! Is this an attempt to say nasty things and still have people think you are a good guy because you say you are sorry !

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Its just my style to not accept bullshit and let it pass quietly by.

What a man !

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I realize that you are unable to argue the points and are unable to back up your claims (like why not back up yoiurclaims about Picasso in the 60's?)

Read slowly ....THAT IS YOUR CLAIM DICKHEAD !
Lets analyse your style....lets leave out the anal obsession and blame that on poor toilet training and guilt at homsexual fantasies....You declare what is true beyond any human error, rant obsessively about anything to do with the rectum, storm off in a huff, storm back in complete ignorance of storming off, proclaim your self the better person whilst insulting the other some more and then leave again.
Bloke, if I had a dog with as miserable an existence as you I would shoot the poor bastard. All dogs chase their tail and sniff arseholes, but you have taken it to an artform.

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Nothing of any intellectual value,

I talk about chaos theory in art and you talk about how you stare at it and it feels good. Lots of intellect there, if you like to hang out on corners and yell at lamp posts.

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@ossobuco,

You might be right there, osso. Wink

But there is no accounting for taste & personal predilections.

Let's take another medium, film.

I LOVE old Ingmar Bergman films, but I know that all that dwelling on the soul & emptiness, etc, etc, etc .. drives many people nuts. I can understand he is not exactly everyone's cup of tea. Wink

And that's OK.

I know just about everyone who appreciates film here thinks the world of the Coen Brothers. Me, I've tried, but I genuinely can't feel the same sort of enthusiasm as everyone else. (Apart from the music in O Brother Where Art Thou.) I don't know why, but that's just the way it is. I feel I'm missing out on something here, but can't quite figure out what it is & I can't change my response.

I have absolutely no problem with anyone not appreciating what really appeals to me. But I do have a problem when a person chooses to denigrate others who appreciate some artwork they personally don't 'get". You cant "get" everything & that's OK, surely?

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@farmerman,

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Ill stick with the common knowledge that this painting is a monumental work.

Monumental my eye. It is a good painting in the style of the masters, but is not brilliant by any means.
Sculptures ? Clearly orgasmic in its ability to induce pleasure....

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:oSlg-CfrMV3WZM:http://www.tate.org.uk/collection/L/L01/L01869_9.jpg

I think you know too well that modern art is the greatest sham in history, the mentally ill taking advantage of the richly gullible.

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his Guernica is often considered the greatest painting of the 20th cwentury.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:w1CDCFnlFXMNzM:http://thelastgasp.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/guernica.jpg

You have to be kidding....tell me how it took talent to put that garbage together ? There is no talent...you are behaving exactly the way someone does when they discover a monstrous lie was at their expense. You are in denial and your argument consists of projecting others with your homo-erotic fantasies, discussing the rectum to the degree that would bore 1st graders, and pronouncing yourself the winner based on your expert opinion after having repeatedly shown an inability to read the opposing post.

Keep the prunes going, you will feel better...

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@Ionus,

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I dont recall even linking the two subjects. Are you nuts? I dont know of any "geneticist geologists" out there.Well you did, my little anally obsessed art critic

Well just cause you say it (especially cause you say it ) I doubt it . SO if you can show me or clip the context Ill be happy to retract (or else Ill explain it to you so you dont make the improper connection). I do have training in genetics and molecular bio but its more for abasis of helping me teach paleontology and stratigraphy and evolution.
Im used to your twisting in the wind. SO Im not holding my breath

You sound like some students that Ive flunked but whove refused to retake a section and claim that its my fault that theyre unable to comprehend the work. Your style is very similar to those who enetrtain their "school experience" without ever obstaining completion of degrees. We had several grad students who hung around the department for the Experience of being with scientists . They never evre completed any work or degrees, but they criticize the real workers and the faculty for their lack of "intelligence". Its a coomn occurence and its something that science departments in universities are familiar with. You fit the profile quite nicely just from your boorish style.
This discussion has veered off Picasso and has steered itself , as "A good offense is the best defense" in which you havent added anything to the discussion AT ALL.

Its common for the rubes to pick on an artist like picasso and get all populist about art scholarship and aestheics. Im glad that I can appreciate several of these artists on several levels and just get a good laugh out of how much youve done credit to the memory of Frank Rizzo and the author of "Entartete Kunst". (They both thought Picasso as merely degenerate)

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@Ionus,

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You have to be kidding

About Guernica?

No, it's a wonderful painting.

And not the least bit complicated or obscure or "elitist" .

Particularly when you know about the context. It was a very appropriate & understandable response from Picasso to a tragic event. (Consider a bit of Googling to find out more.)

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@farmerman,

You accuse me of doing exactly what you are doing....unfortunately, the internet is full of blowhards like you making all sorts of wierd claims based on their failings suddenly being their strongest points.

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We had several grad students who hung around the department for the Experience of being with scientists .

And be entertained by your homosexual fantasies and anal retentive obsessions. Pity they didnt get to meet any real scientists. You are so full of yourself......

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You sound like some students that Ive flunked but whove refused to retake a section and claim that its my fault that theyre unable to comprehend the work.

Please tell me you are not another senile old crusty blaming the students because you can not stay on topic or remember what you told them from one minute to the next...you cant read a post here or remember what you have said...it is always the students fault isnt it ?

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This discussion has veered off Picasso

Look you old fart, the very last post by me was about Picasso. How much of your last post was about Picasso and how much was your unsubstantiated and belligerant opinion of me ? Admit to being senile and seek help for God's sake if not ours.

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Its common for the rubes to pick on an artist like picasso and get all populist about art scholarship and aestheics.

You old fool. Picasso IS populist.

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They never evre completed any work or degrees, but they criticize the real workers and the faculty for their lack of "intelligence".

I am convinced you have been a surveyors assistant, or some other labourers work where you picked up a smattering of rocks and fossils.

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A good offense is the best defense

Well that leaves you defenceless and offensive.

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@msolga,

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Particularly when you know about the context.

You dont have to know the context to recognise a good painting. The painting is so good it makes you ask about the context, not the other way around.

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It was a very appropriate & understandable response from Picasso to a tragic event.

I can only assume he was deaf dumb and blind with both arms missing.

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@Ionus,

No. He wasn't.
And trying to talk with you appears to be a bit of a waste of time.

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@msolga,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/PicassoGuernica.jpg

I found out, in my search for an image of Guernica, WHY isnt the full sense of its scale and drama and color on the net? It turns out that its in the hands of Picassos estate and is only on loan . WHen I saw it in real life I was moved as much as I was when I saw the "Vietnam Wall Memorial" in DC. When you see its full 25 foot length by 11 foot width, with its somber and complex muted colors, you can get a sense of his outrgae at the bombing. Picassos work in 1937 during and afetr Guernica left him vry close to being arrested. Franco was in a corner cause Picasso was named the head of the Prado museum and Franco was trying to say to the world that such important patrimony wouldnt be touched in an y kind of retribution against the artists and intellectuals. Franco did take his cue from der Fuerher and try to convince people that the work of Goya and Picasso was degenerate (and De Chirico etc). Hmmmm, great minds think alike , it seems. Well, Franco, Hitler, ANUS. Hes in good art critique company
msolga said

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And trying to talk with you appears to be a bit of a waste of time.

.A BIT?? I just realized that when he accused me of skulking off to "Hide" .HELL all I was doing was sleeping in alignment with the day-night cycle in my hemisphere. Im sorry I dont stay awake 24 hours to satisfy his lame argument needs.

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@farmerman,

I would dearly love to see the real Guernica & not just reproductions, farmer. But even though I've had a rely on reproductions, it strikes me as one of the most powerful artistic statements about the horror & cruelty of war. I understand that the Weeping Woman was inspired by the same event.

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... I just realized that when he accused me of skulking off to "Hide" .HELL all I was doing was sleeping in alignment with the day-night cycle in my hemisphere. Im sorry I dont stay awake 24 hours to satisfy his lame argument needs.

Well good morning, then. Right back where you left off last night! Wink

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@msolga,

Im sitting here with a cuppa coffee. Still raining .
Yeh, Picasso did a bunch of studies and cartoons of the details of Guernica and a big work of Franco called (something like) "The Dreams and Lies of FRANCO".
Picasso was skating on a thin edge of being arrested . Only thing that kept him relatively safe was his worldwide notoriety. He had reporters camped out with him to see what he was gonna say or draw next that would piss off the Franco-"philes" and their overlords , the NAzis.

I saw Guernica when it was here in NY until , I believe , 1981. I took a class of students to a mineral show at the Museum of Nat History and we went over to MOMA to see Gurnica. I remember when some guy, during Vietnams ending days had tried to deface it as an antiwar demo. The painting is goddam HUUUGE. And it was made so that the viewer was in a dialogue with the segments of the work. You could lose yourself and trnsport yourself back to his studio with him trying to show the world that, while the light was out, these monsters were killing people .
There are several interpretations of the animals in the painting but I think Picassos own interpretation trumps all.

"Its a damn horse, thats what it is. Im sure you can tell what anials they are" Of course , all his work of Franco showed the guy as a bloated bull in the process of devouring children and buildings.

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@farmerman,

That image of the horse is incredible. You can almost hear it's anguish.
I keep saying it, but I so wish I could experience this painting as it was meant to be experienced. I imagine you could become completely lost in all the details of the pain, misery & brutality.

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@msolga,

and everything is tied together by darkness, even in a well lit gallery. Its spooky how it works.
I also remember that there were 3 smaller sections that were back lit and thiw cast a pall of the twon and the animalsand the man with the sword being killed by STukas dive bombing with the sirens on the plane wings.

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@ossobuco,

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I am sort of amused that someone at the high end of privilege re the arts, now thinks it sucks up life.

Why are you 'amused'?
That quote almost makes me sound ungrateful or something.
Like I say, I come on here to try and collate my thoughts and hear other sides of the argument. I'm not stating any opinions 'for definite'.

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@The Pentacle Queen,

I guess, wrt your original point, what about someone who just lives to draw, paint, sculpt , dance or play the flute? That IS their life. They become obsessed with their arts. Now, whether or not they are excellent in their craft part does sometime take away the passion.

Remember van Gogh had the obsession that color, against complementary colors still could not achieve the scene he pictured in his minds eye. Does frustration make us yield the passion? We have a local oil pinter (pleinair) who has traveled back nd forth to New Mexico because he felt that the colors reflected from the sky could only be seen out there. His expenses to paint were astronomical and there wasnt a public demand for his work . Hes become more frustrated yet his ideas are transferrabke to students in his "master Classes" at the Pa Academy. He has a career, hes a great artist who has abstracted the deert scene to its meanest denominator SO he should be happy, NO?

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Does art take away from life?

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