6
   

Universal health care

 
 
Cyracuz
 
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2010 10:55 am
Many have probably seen this before. It is a scene from Michael Moore's Sicko where he visits Norway to have a look at the health care system among other things. The scene was removed from the film because it was thought that it is too incredible to be believed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGTzbj3fRSw

I think many people, particularly americans, have a hard time believing that this is true. But having lived in Norway my whole life I can say that it is true. All of it.
Just thought I'd post it in these times of health care debate.
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2010 12:12 pm
I can only agree with you regarding Norway.
He could never had made a film about the good NHS in England. It is falling apart - just read English newspapers.
Sweden has very good doctors and hospitals, but there is often a long waiting list to get into them. About 10-15 years ago the average patient had to wait 5 years for an operation. Things are changing as the different hospitals are cooperating..
Now it is only a few months if you are lucky. Cancer usually get operated as fast as possible. New hip can take months.
As far as I know many Swedish doctors like to work in Norway, better paid and less paperwork.

I don´t like Michael Moore, but that is beside the facts about Norway.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2010 03:24 pm
@saab,
Quote:
I don´t like Michael Moore,


A lotta Americans don't either. He was way way too truthful for them so his TV program got axed. Who needs the truth when you can get by on a slug of daily propaganda.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2010 11:31 pm
@saab,
Yes, it's the same here. Sometimes there is waiting. I guess there is a sort of triage system they use.

But at the bottom of it there is a fundamental set of values. Shall we live for ourselves of for eachother?

0 Replies
 
MASSAGAT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 12:28 am
@saab,
Thank You for re-enforcing the stance that Socialistically organized Medical Practice does not work. I think one of the funniest things I have read recently was the fact that a high ranking Canadian Official went to Florida to have a heart valve corrected. That, as far as I am concerned is a nail in the coffin for both the Camadian Health system and Obamacare!
saab
 
  2  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 01:59 am
@MASSAGAT,
The health system in Norway and other European countries we would never call socialistically organized medical practice. We are not socialistic countries.
A socialistic country was UDDSR.
We find the medical system as we have it the correct thing as everybody should have a good doctor and dentist and medical help.

Often in the old days before universal health care and the same happens in USA the doctor did not /does not give the patient a bill.
Why should the doctor personally pay for something we all can share for a much less money for the individual?
Cyracuz
 
  2  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 05:36 am
@saab,
I can see how it is hard for someone who is raised with selfishness as the prime ideal to come around to the idea of a society that takes care of it's weakest and most unfortunate.

firefly
 
  0  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 09:41 am
@MASSAGAT,
MASSAGAT, there are other models of univeral health care besides the Canadian system. Many of them are very good. The important thing is to provide health care for everyone--just as we provide education for everyone. It benefits everyone to have a healthy and educated populace --these things promote the general welfare of a society.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 09:51 am
@saab,
saab wrote:

He could never had made a film about the good NHS in England. It is falling apart - just read English newspapers.


I've only good experiences with the NHS, these days as well as more than 40 years ago.
And actually, most British citizens like it, too - though they get sometimes a jealous when e.g. looking at our system ... or even get involved with it (as did some British A2K'ers).

re those waiting times
I think that they are indeed very short in the USA.
However, the following operation not only is expensive but exclusive to a few.

Here, everyone gets them - as fast as possible.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 09:56 am
@Cyracuz,


Those that are dependent on government are raised with selfishness as their prime ideal.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 10:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,

Regarding the health systems I think they are good and developed to fit the population in each country.

I was more refering to the hospitals in England, than the NHS itself. I have heard a lot of complaints how things are working now a days.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 11:37 am
I liked the German model a lot, but even it is having it's problems...besides being billions in the red.



Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 12:07 pm
@Irishk,


re your first quote:

Very true, we are understaffed with physicians here: only about 50% of the doctors in private practice do home visits now.
And in rural parts, like where I live, you can't visit the doctor of the "emergency services" (that's something ALL doctors in private practise have to do) on weekends/outside practise hours or just call him/her for a home visit like before, but there are regional centres now, perhaps up to 10 miles away from your place.
(That's not related to the emergency services in the hospitals.)

In hospitals, we've got now - as junior doctors - a lot of foreigners. Our young doctors like to go abroad where they get paid better.


re your second quote

Well, our hospital doctors - especially in junior ranks - are paid very well compared to some other countries.
And since they have to work more with shorter working hours (as regulated by EU and German labour law), they want to get a better salary.

Wage cuts, increased working hours, worsening conditions at work - that are usually topics for unions here. And that's why the greatest union for physicians working in hospitals called for that strike.

0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  0  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 01:36 pm
@H2O MAN,
That just makes no sense, and I know from experience that it is not true.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 01:51 pm
@Cyracuz,


It's true here in the states and it makes perfect sense.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 07:04 pm
@H2O MAN,
At best your statement is a subjective opinion. You keep offering them as objective facts.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 07:19 pm
@Cyracuz,
Thanks. Very good telling. I am jealous of the countries with real health care.
MASSAGAT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 11:37 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:


Very true, we are understaffed with physicians here: only about 50% of the doctors in private practice do home visits now.
And in rural parts, like where I live, you can't visit the doctor of the "emergency services" (that's something ALL doctors in private practise have to do) on weekends/outside practise hours or just call him/her for a home visit like before, but there are regional centres now, perhaps up to 10 miles away from your place.
(That's not related to the emergency services in the hospitals.)

In hospitals, we've got now - as junior doctors - a lot of foreigners. Our young doctors like to go abroad where they get paid better.


re your second quote

Well, our hospital doctors - especially in junior ranks - are paid very well compared to some other countries.
And since they have to work more with shorter working hours (as regulated by EU and German labour law), they want to get a better salary.

Wage cuts, increased working hours, worsening conditions at work - that are usually topics for unions here. And that's why the greatest union for physicians working in hospitals called for that strike.
End of quote
*************************************************************************

If such condtions exist in Germany, which is, I believe, the fourth ranking country in the world in GDP and the industrial and financial leader in Europe, how can Obamacare be an improvement.

Under Obamacare, it is clear we will lose Doctors and shortages along with wating lists will ensue.
0 Replies
 
MASSAGAT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 11:39 pm
@edgarblythe,
Really, Edgarblythe And which countries would that be? Canada? England? I really don't think you know what you are talking about, as usual!
0 Replies
 
MASSAGAT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 11:41 pm
@firefly,
Please tell me which Health Care systems you are speaking of--specifically, so i can compare them to Obamacare to see what we may be getting.

Certainly, you are not referring to the English or Canadian Health Care System!!
0 Replies
 
 

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