Universal health care

I can only agree with you regarding Norway.
He could never had made a film about the good NHS in England. It is falling apart - just read English newspapers.
Sweden has very good doctors and hospitals, but there is often a long waiting list to get into them. About 10-15 years ago the average patient had to wait 5 years for an operation. Things are changing as the different hospitals are cooperating..
Now it is only a few months if you are lucky. Cancer usually get operated as fast as possible. New hip can take months.
As far as I know many Swedish doctors like to work in Norway, better paid and less paperwork.

I don´t like Michael Moore, but that is beside the facts about Norway.

A lotta Americans don't either. He was way way too truthful for them so his TV program got axed. Who needs the truth when you can get by on a slug of daily propaganda.

Yes, it's the same here. Sometimes there is waiting. I guess there is a sort of triage system they use.

But at the bottom of it there is a fundamental set of values. Shall we live for ourselves of for eachother?

Thank You for re-enforcing the stance that Socialistically organized Medical Practice does not work. I think one of the funniest things I have read recently was the fact that a high ranking Canadian Official went to Florida to have a heart valve corrected. That, as far as I am concerned is a nail in the coffin for both the Camadian Health system and Obamacare!

The health system in Norway and other European countries we would never call socialistically organized medical practice. We are not socialistic countries.
A socialistic country was UDDSR.
We find the medical system as we have it the correct thing as everybody should have a good doctor and dentist and medical help.

Often in the old days before universal health care and the same happens in USA the doctor did not /does not give the patient a bill.
Why should the doctor personally pay for something we all can share for a much less money for the individual?

I can see how it is hard for someone who is raised with selfishness as the prime ideal to come around to the idea of a society that takes care of it's weakest and most unfortunate.

MASSAGAT, there are other models of univeral health care besides the Canadian system. Many of them are very good. The important thing is to provide health care for everyone--just as we provide education for everyone. It benefits everyone to have a healthy and educated populace --these things promote the general welfare of a society.

I've only good experiences with the NHS, these days as well as more than 40 years ago.
And actually, most British citizens like it, too - though they get sometimes a jealous when e.g. looking at our system ... or even get involved with it (as did some British A2K'ers).

re those waiting times
I think that they are indeed very short in the USA.
However, the following operation not only is expensive but exclusive to a few.

Here, everyone gets them - as fast as possible.

Those that are dependent on government are raised with selfishness as their prime ideal.

Regarding the health systems I think they are good and developed to fit the population in each country.

I was more refering to the hospitals in England, than the NHS itself. I have heard a lot of complaints how things are working now a days.

I liked the German model a lot, but even it is having it's problems...besides being billions in the red.

re your first quote:

Very true, we are understaffed with physicians here: only about 50% of the doctors in private practice do home visits now.
And in rural parts, like where I live, you can't visit the doctor of the "emergency services" (that's something ALL doctors in private practise have to do) on weekends/outside practise hours or just call him/her for a home visit like before, but there are regional centres now, perhaps up to 10 miles away from your place.
(That's not related to the emergency services in the hospitals.)

In hospitals, we've got now - as junior doctors - a lot of foreigners. Our young doctors like to go abroad where they get paid better.


re your second quote

Well, our hospital doctors - especially in junior ranks - are paid very well compared to some other countries.
And since they have to work more with shorter working hours (as regulated by EU and German labour law), they want to get a better salary.

Wage cuts, increased working hours, worsening conditions at work - that are usually topics for unions here. And that's why the greatest union for physicians working in hospitals called for that strike.

That just makes no sense, and I know from experience that it is not true.

It's true here in the states and it makes perfect sense.

At best your statement is a subjective opinion. You keep offering them as objective facts.

Thanks. Very good telling. I am jealous of the countries with real health care.

Walter Hinteler wrote:


Very true, we are understaffed with physicians here: only about 50% of the doctors in private practice do home visits now.
And in rural parts, like where I live, you can't visit the doctor of the "emergency services" (that's something ALL doctors in private practise have to do) on weekends/outside practise hours or just call him/her for a home visit like before, but there are regional centres now, perhaps up to 10 miles away from your place.
(That's not related to the emergency services in the hospitals.)

In hospitals, we've got now - as junior doctors - a lot of foreigners. Our young doctors like to go abroad where they get paid better.


re your second quote

Well, our hospital doctors - especially in junior ranks - are paid very well compared to some other countries.
And since they have to work more with shorter working hours (as regulated by EU and German labour law), they want to get a better salary.

Wage cuts, increased working hours, worsening conditions at work - that are usually topics for unions here. And that's why the greatest union for physicians working in hospitals called for that strike.
End of quote
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If such condtions exist in Germany, which is, I believe, the fourth ranking country in the world in GDP and the industrial and financial leader in Europe, how can Obamacare be an improvement.

Under Obamacare, it is clear we will lose Doctors and shortages along with wating lists will ensue.

Really, Edgarblythe And which countries would that be? Canada? England? I really don't think you know what you are talking about, as usual!

Please tell me which Health Care systems you are speaking of--specifically, so i can compare them to Obamacare to see what we may be getting.

Certainly, you are not referring to the English or Canadian Health Care System!!