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Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Aug, 2021 08:25 pm
@Leadfoot,
Just a temporary glitch
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 02:01 am
@farmerman,
for edgar, I did some correct-a-type, sorry, I couldnt even understand what I wrote last PM. HERES what it should read as


Quote:
@edgarblythe,
I believe its more than 25 distinct species of Homo in that weve got good fossils.
There are some other species , like H idaltu from which weve only got some teeth (And those are usually molars
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 02:39 am
@Leadfoot,
Just send an email to the mods and ask them what's up. I've asked before what exactly pissed everybody off, and although I might disagree with some of the gigs, at least I learned what upset someone. Try it.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 07:20 am
@glitterbag,
I'm pretty sure it was for blasphemy.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 08:21 am
@edgarblythe,
That's a nice fantasy there.

But they don't write stories on localized floods. And the Great Flood is said to have flooded the whole world and told by not just the Jews, but the Mesopotamians (believed to be the first). But lest you think, "Ahhhh that's it, the Jews are plagiarists who borrowed culture from Egyptians and Mesopotamians," there is something else happening here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth
You see, the 6th century BC Genesis myth might have roots in that the Mesopotamians have a flood myth from 7th century BC Epic of Gilgamesh which in turn was probably recopied from 18th century BC. Let's set this tentatively at the 18th century BC, and say that it was recopied for posterity. But we also have a 6th century BC Hindu myth (this is not the first parallel that Jewish culture has with Hindu, around 2000BC, there is the famine with Joseph at the same time as a Brahmastra legend... hold on, Wikipedia made a screwy mistake. They say that the flood myth is 6th century BC, but Joseph's famine is after this, but dated before... the date set on that famine is somewhere around 2000BC; this is probably revisionism meant to fit this all into the Muslim calendar, that restricts events from being before 6000BC (when they believe the world was created). This is the Biblical timeline...
https://biblehub.com/timeline/
and it places the time of Noah at before 3000BC, so the Mesopotamian myth most either have been written before that, or this is a later account of an earlier event). Back to the flood. Regardless of the timeline (which I've said appears screwed up), there is in addition to this Chinese mythology, Greek, Norse, Muslim, Irish, Polynesian (it seems to skip Japan), Mesoamerican, Native American, and parts of Africa, South America, and Australia. Much of the world has this myth. So uhhhhh fantasy? You're the one living in a fantasy, something here definitely happened. And the Sphinx has water lines, suggesting human history is far older than we are told, that it preexisted the some sort of level rise which... is dated just before 3000BC.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_water_erosion_hypothesis
The Great Flood actually happened, in addition to the Silurian period, there was probably an extinction level event, either as a result of melting icecaps or continental shift. Only certain people survived, probably from living on higher ground or making some sturdy boats.

But things get weirder. I've heard at least one hypothesis that suggests that the Great Flood story is actually a coded myth about a mass exodus from another planet. I don't care if you believe this or not, but there seems to be an asteroid belt just outside Mars, and the surface of Mars has some signs of previous life and some water. The hypothesis goes that there used to be a planet near where those asteroids are, and it got hit by a giant meteor (or in stranger stories, some weapon). The explosion fried the nearby planet Mars.
https://mars.nasa.gov/MPF/martianchronicle/martianchron7/signs.html
The original planet was called Phaeton
https://infogalactic.com/info/Phaeton
Basically, turning the life on a starship into life on a more relatable boat.

Are we are talking about genetic memory of sea life? Or we are talking about an exodus from a single island like Atlantis or Pangaea, and all the cultures that have this myth were once one culture? Or are we talking about exodus from another planet, where asteroids now are?

You can chose whichever one seems most plausible to you, but since a huge stretch of land has this myth, and much of it is not related by close borders, outright calling it a fantasy starts to sound like Scully making far more unbelievable denials than simply accepting the event.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 08:25 am
@bulmabriefs144,
I don't need to believe in a flood the people on the ground - the scientists - say never happened.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 08:36 am
@edgarblythe,
Right. We must always trust the science. Because consensus is a scientific mindset and not related to dogma at all.

And I suppose it doesn't bother you at all that this landmass described includes everything from North and South America to Australia and Africa, all the way to China. That so many different cultures far apart say that an event happened usually implies (a) it happened or (b) it is a metaphor for another event that happened (continental shift, evolution to life on land, Pangaea/Atlantis, etc).

edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 08:40 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Many floods, similar myths.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 08:41 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Have you read Velikovsky? He makes pretty good arguments for stuff that never happened too.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 09:16 am
@edgarblythe,
Many floods, similar myths...

Only, we don't make flood myths or sing bardic songs for Hurricane Isobel flooding half a street.

The closest thing we have to this is Galveston ( "Wasn't That A Mighty Storm") getting a song sung for it.

Whatever you have to do to sleep at night, I'm sure you're willing to tell yourself. But let us suppose that the areas that have flood myths are all connected to a single isle. One flood, many myths.
Or the icecaps melted because you know, there wad an Ice Age and it ended. One flood, many myths.
Or we somehow have a biological pre-human memory of a time where the water level was much much higher. One flood, many myths.

These scientists you mention appear to be short-sighted ignorami. They conveniently ignore the Ice Age, theories of continental drift, the Silurian Age, and many other scientific or historical events to tell you "the entire world neber flooded." It did during the Silurian period. It did other times during geological history. It also shifted around several times in all likelihood.

https://earthage.org/scientific-evidence-for-a-worldwide-flood/

These scientists appear to have evidence. Same fossils all over the world at a certain period. This only happens when the entire world is connected by water. Otherwise you have fossils with regional differences, where they adapt to different lands.
https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/great-flood-00263
This one dates the flood at 7000 years ago, or around 5000 BC, significantly older than the flood that I stated happened at 3000 BC.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 09:21 am
I don't like your use of the word "neber" for never in a post like this.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 09:23 am
@bulmabriefs144,
The modern storms came after we had a better view of the world. We don't need to mythologize what our communications show us.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 09:34 am
@edgarblythe,
Omg, seriously?

Are you really gonna do the "enlightened modern man" mythos?

Ancient people had to deal with floods every day. They didn't have dams, so Egypt in particular had a fairly regular flood and worshiped a deity hoping it would not be terrible and wash everyone. The ancient people knew about floods, had a word for flood, and floods were a regular occurrence.

Whatever this way, was decidedly not. Everywhere they went, there was floodland. And many countries have this myth. But sure, they don't know what they are talking about. We are scientific and we know everything.

Dude, read the links above.

Btw, we aren't as clever as we think. Lost technology is a thing. Rome had complicated aqueducts and a cement technology that has been lost for centuries, and I'm not sure ours is as good. The Pantheon has been around for over 12 centuries.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 09:45 am
Don't know what you are getting worked up about. There have been floods as long as we can go back, I would imagine. Just no Noah's flood.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 11:30 am
@bulmabriefs144,
there is no evidence in the geologic record of a Noachian "worldwide flood". Thats strait from SCience. All the ages youve mentioned , like any other tie, have evidence of marine transgressions over lands that had sunk in anticlinoria and synclinoria (Lands that have been "bent like a carpet" and then eroded.

Every time in geological history where we see fossil records of MARINE (not flood) waters and their fossils, we also see evidence of mountains rivers and streams and swamps (All these features, by definition occur WITHIN dry lands )

Noah flood is just a tory. Pittman and Ryan, back in the 80's id a lot of drilling in the Black Se and Med basins and found evidence that the Black Sea was a flloded basin that possibly spawned the Gilgamesh story, and, at the similar times, the Mediterraneans was often a full desert landscape.
Ya have to pay attention to the fossils and their dates in place.

"Continental Drift" assumed there were continents to drift about, (for that we have lots of evidence along the continental margins)

The book of the Black Sea flood by Drs Pittman and Ryan i a good tale of scientific etective work and is a good READ.

Sorry to bust the bubble but no Noah;s flood, just a bunch of little overbanks at ifferent tines in erths history.

A Creation "geologist" ried to smack one on a bunch of tudents at a Geological Society of America Conference about 15 yeqrs ago. The guy, a "fellow" at the Discovery Institute took a bunch of tudents and young geologists to the grand Canyon to how them that (in his wors) The G Canyon was a remnant of THE FLOOD of Genesis. A ouple of awake students from Calgary hoed this guy depoits of :Dune sands" right in the middle of the "flood deposits"
The guy was mbarrassed cause he didnt do homework and chose his field area "POORLY".

guys name is Dr Stephen Austen (just like the 6 million dollar man) xcept this guy had hi geo all fucked up.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 11:35 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Think about it. None of the Genesis authors had any idea in hell what was going on around the earth at any single time. Also, they had no idea about geo stratigraphy and the "Silurian". We have lots of evidence from the Silurian of huge land deposits in Columbia time we have evidence of fern fossils (THey sure as hell dont grow in flood eposits)

That stuff you posted is Bullshit moronic crap from some Creationist source that has no idea about Earth History, thats sad actually.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 11:45 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
Rome had complicated aqueducts and a cement technology that has been lost for centuries, and I'm not sure ours is as good.
Roman cement has been known since it was first mixed. Its called "POZZOLONI" and is just a mixture of normal cement but contains volcanic ash. weve used it for pecial projects for as long as weve known it. Its ok but not the strongest. We have concretes that, by added organic polymer chemicals, form really strong bond layers, and weve ven got concretes that we can lay and set up in frozn conditions

Quote:
The Pantheon has been around for over 12 centuries.
I think you mean THE PARTHENON not Pantheon. A Pantheon is where you hang pictures of your gods and dead superheroes.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 01:19 pm
@farmerman,
Roman concrete is a different structure than our modern concrete.

Modern concrete lasts maybe 5 decades before it falls apart. Roman concrete lasts centuries. We have literally forgotten the recipe. In fact, during the Dark Ages, we lost a great deal of knowledge period.

https://magazine.engineerjobs.com/2013/rediscovering-concrete.htm

Literally, we lost it. And when we found it again, we couldn't do it as well.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/why-ancient-roman-concrete-stronger-than-modern.htm

Quote:
We may think we're at the height of human knowledge, but the ancients did possess precious knowledge that has been lost to time.


https://history.howstuffworks.com/10-times-humanity-found-answer-and-then-forgot.htm
10. Greek Fire
9. Steam power
8. Indirect heating (also a Roman invention)
7. Plumbing
6. Damascus Steel
5. Stradivarius Violins (we can still make the violin but there are certain methods that are lost)
4. An MRSA remedy
3. Antikythera Mechanism
2. Calculus
1. The New World

I'd also like you to know that the Egyptians were found with a device that appeared to be some sort of crude solar battery.

You guys seem to categorically reject Genesis Flood story, but you are missing the point. Universal story is universal story. It's referring to something.

No, not the Parthenon dumbass. The Pantheon.

The Parthenon is a series of marble pillars now, and is mostly crumbling. And this is in Greece. The PANTHEON in Rome was built on about 100 AD, and has since been converted to a church and is still standing. You are proving exactly how ignorant you are.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheon,_Rome

When you don't read, and you don't understand what you read, you shouldn't be telling others they are wrong. I did my exam paper on religion concerning the Great Flood. We had to research for an essay and memorize enough of it to write the exam. I found out that in the underground caves in Switzerland, the water lines showed a period where water had been significantly higher in ancient times.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 02:22 pm
@farmerman,
I'm thinking about how stupid you are calling me stupid.

Not only did you confuse the Parthenon (Greek, different era, crumbling) for the Pantheon (Roman, still standing in modern day Rome) but you seem to be confused about something.

I've mentioned water lines. These are where there are darkened and discolored marks on surfaces from previous water levels. I mentioned them during Egyptian history and in Swiss caves. Not only was water higher at some point in the past, probably forcing people in Egypt to live like those in South East Asia, Florida, or Venice. But "covering the entire world" doesn't necessarily mean every corn of land. So if the water level is 20 ft higher this onlt means buildings like the Sphinx have a water line there. It doesn't mean "no land anywhere". High elevation is unaffected. So "we found ferns" hooray, you proved nothing. If the Silurian period was even 10 ft higher, alot of areas that today we take for granted would be under the sea. I was in China, and they had a porcelain fish on the pavement right near the water. They were going to dam up the area, raising the water level in places and that fish is gone. That is what it's like. If water level is 100 or even 1000 ft higher, there are still mountains that are like islands above the water. They have ferns, they have slopes leading down, but underwater you realize you are actually looking at a mountain. Likewise, we have a beach nearby us that clearly used to be a forest. There are wood stumps that I bang my foot on, where water had flushed away old trees.
https://ucmp.berkeley.edu/silurian/silurian.php
The icecaps melted, and the water level rose. That there were ferns is no big deal. There was land, but the majority of life was in the ocean. Directly after this period, we had a steady movement to life on land. This is the first possible inspiration for "Great Flood" not actually a flood at all but a prehistoric water life memory.
The second Great Flood happened when the Ice Age (21000 to 24000 years ago) stopped.
https://www.history.com/news/ice-age-human-survival
Lands that would have been there before due to ice containing most of the water melted, and suddenly areas like the land between Russia and America were filled with water. Yes, this did happen.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_floods
The third Great Flood candidate appears to be around 3000 BC, and explain water levels on the Sphinx and possibly how he lost his nose. This water appears to have receded quickly, though maybe not in 40 days and nights. Likely the flood didn't get past 20-40 ft high, but it was enough for many countries to write about it. But oh sure, there is no evidence and they don't know what they are talking about.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 02:32 pm
As I said before, the ones doing the grunt work - the scientists - would know the most about a Noah-style flood and they say it never happened.
 

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