Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

We just don't want to mix church and state. If that makes us bigots, somebody better rewrite the dictionaries to include that for part of the definition.

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fm ignores twaddle, when he ignores such posts. It has nothing to do with your supposedly presenting arguments that make him uncomfortable. You know this, but push the notion in hope it will persuade the simple minded among us. In my view you have presented the art of rabble rousing but have not brought any reliable information. As I stated earlier, it is the anti evolution factions seeking to create fear and confusion. If we waited for the fundamentalists to be ready to accept the truth of evolution, they would seize the opportunity to try and perpetuate the ignorance forever. To let them set the agenda is to be walking barefoot when one could be driving an automobile.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea?

Is Religion a dangerous idea? (in comparison to Evolution)

Biological Evolution is just a scientific theory which happens to explain the world around us (and makes valid predictions). It's not a belief system, it's just knowledge (for better or for worse).

The science that evolution is based on is just a methodology incorporated within the belief system of Naturalism.

Religion is a belief system (typically theological).

Naturalism is a belief system (typically secular), which is the basis for our interaction with the physical world.

Is religion a dangerous belief system? Is naturalism a dangerous belief system?

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

There are several of the self described "elites" in our area who write to our newspapers that although they support evolution as a fact, they do not want it taught to our kids in public schools. DAMN, I thought spendi was alone in that nonsense! I cannot figure out the disconnect that such people have to the expectations of the next generation. Are they just giving up because of rising controversey from the religious right? Why would anyone even consider that (other than spwendi of course whod gone on record with that premise several years ago). He must be catching.

Those elites must have been reading my evolution thread and were finally persuaded to spendi's view after his many posts! Sorry, farmerman. Smile

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@rosborne979,

Quote:

Biological Evolution is just a scientific theory which happens to explain the world around us

It does not explain many things which are of great interest and concern. I have pointed out a good many of them but ros has me on Ignore which saves him the trouble of either considering them of contradicting them. Whatever anybody else thinks I don't give a damn what somebody thinks who uses Ignore in a debate such as this.

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and makes valid predictions

One has to wonder what they are.

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it's just knowledge (for better or for worse).

Which knowledge? And religious theology is also for better or for worse.

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The science that evolution is based on is just a methodology incorporated within the belief system of Naturalism.

A belief system eh? What other aspects of the theology of this belief sysyem are there and are they coherent and consistent with highly organised societies?

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Naturalism is a belief system (typically secular), which is the basis for our interaction with the physical world.

It is not a basis for our interaction with the physical world. The survival of the fittest is not even remotely on our agenda and least of all that of socialists.

Asertions are not worth a blow to a scientific mind.

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

fm ignores twaddle, when he ignores such posts.

Quote a post of mine you think is twaddle Ed and explain why you take such a view of it. You have a lot to choose from. And I'm sure you will allow me the right to defend the post you choose.

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It has nothing to do with your supposedly presenting arguments that make him uncomfortable.

Oh yeah!!

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You know this, but push the notion in hope it will persuade the simple minded among us.

I don't know it at all. I contradict it. And nobody ever accused me before of addressing the "simple minded". I treat A2Kers with respect which is more than you do Ed, expecting them to accept a long series of assertions.

Quote:

In my view you have presented the art of rabble rousing but have not brought any reliable information.

That's okay with "In my view" in it. I don't dispute your right to your view. I don't think the rabble, as you call them, read my posts. Getting a bit hoity-toity aren't you Ed? The "simple minded" and the "rabble". Cripes.

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As I stated earlier, it is the anti evolution factions seeking to create fear and confusion.

Stating it again doesn't make it any more valid. It's still an assertion and one that justifies others saying that it's the pro-evolution factions which are seeking to create fear and confusion.

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@wandeljw,

Quote:

Those elites must have been reading my evolution thread and were finally persuaded to spendi's view after his many posts! Sorry, farmerman.

If they were persuaded wande it was by the arguments alone.

I think your side made a big mistake in making such a fuss about those two irrelevant and meaningless and soon forgotten two paragraphs being read out in Dover schools. They were water off a duck's back to teenagers. Most of them wouldn't have been paying attention and the few who might have been would likely not know what they meant. The consequences of that mistake has probably caused less biology to be learned.

It's too late now old chap. The politer aspects of the arguments are now on the record. If the DI has any nonce at all it will have somebody studying them. There are enough hints in them of a few of the less politer aspects of the argument for anybody who knows how to read half-way expertly. On odd occasions more than hints.

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@wandeljw,

Yes, he does such an enviable job at composing run-on sentences that change subject mid phrase, everyone is convinced by his elocution.

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@farmerman,

I trust that the "elites" can see from my last post on wande's thread that declaring the $27 million creation museum to be "bullshit" is not an intellectually respectable way of winning an argument.

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@spendius,

I would have a great deal of fun at the creation museum. Same as Dollywood and Disneyland.

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@edgarblythe,

I am concerned that kids recieve moral and science education at the same time. I dont care for not mixing church and state as I believe it cant be done anyway. How many Presidents have flaunted being religious and how many have flaunted being scientists ?

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@edgarblythe,

I am going to visit the Creation museum in the same spirit as The MAgic Kingdom or those Orcadromes where people make the killer whales do tricks and people risk their lives with these large meat eaters.

I was told that the displays of fossils and artifacts at the CReation museum are not arranged in any sense of chronological or evolutionary significance. They are , instead placed in an order that recognizes a "Flood".

Only the CReationists recognize many of these mythological occurences as facts and make them part of a "Creation science" curriculum .
Kentucky seems an appropriate location as a center of creation science "research".

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@farmerman,

Quote:

I was told that the displays of fossils and artifacts at the CReation museum are not arranged in any sense of chronological or evolutionary significance. They are , instead placed in an order that recognizes a "Flood".

"I was told" is grossly insufficient scientific evidence on which to conclude anything as definite as "They are , instead placed in an order that recognizes a "Flood"."

If you do visit fm I would advise you to note Mr Gill's description of the security staff and control your tendency to harangue the officials.

The show seems to me to be something akin to that art form known as the "folly" with which the English landscape is dotted. One such is created, fictionally, in Tristram Shandy. I think those things serve to alleviate the quite understandable ennui which rich people are subject to.

The Discovery Institute might well be one with the paid staff indulging the patron/s as best they can. As might Cox Enterprises which, as you know, is a private company , 98 percent controlled by the octogenarian daughter of the founder, Anne Cox Chambers, and the two children of her late sister Barbara Cox Anthony. wande has often provided quotes from that fountain of wisdom and sound science.

It must be great fun owning a few newspapers and broadcasting stations.

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If you do visit fm I would advise you to note Mr Gill's description of the security staff and control your tendency to harangue the officials.

A mild example of what I have said before:
Rabble rousing against evolutionists.

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@edgarblythe,

I will certainly be on my best behavior. After paying their admission fee, I will dispense with all my personal realitiy needs.

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@edgarblythe,

Not at all Ed.

You're too much of a latecomer to these threads to know that fm once reported himself haranguing a revivalist meeting house congregation and being shown the door by gentle religious people. The security staff could not be guaranteed to be so considerate towards someone intent on spoiling their customer's day out and who are the mother lode from which they derive their income.

And it is difficult to imagine him taking the trouble to visit the exhibition for any other purpose than to make a nuisance of himself and show off the limited scientific expertise he is obviously so proud of. Mr Gill's essay is quite sufficient to satisfy any curiosity he might have.

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@spendius,

I know the story. I am no late comer. I just content myself to read along without commentary at times.
That congregation was the abuser, as I recall it.

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Once upon a time it was the Catholic bishops who were the power block who didnt like science. Now it is the Protestants and other breakaway churches where the minister is the power block and doesnt like science. If people are taught to read the Bible for themselves, being published in the common language was the first step, but it is not an easy book to master and it certainly doesnt mean the obvious, then what happens to the hold that the man out the front has over people ? Where will all the money go ? How will ministers feel important ?

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@Ionus,

Quote:

then what happens to the hold that the man out the front has over people ? Where will all the money go ? How will ministers feel important

That is entirely the basis for which Creationism still abounds as a political force in the US. We have several charsimatic theo leaders who, in order to exercise their control and so that they may suffer a more abundant life, "INTERPRET" the Boble for their minions. The Catholic Churches dogma is based upon it "Tradition" being equal to Scripture so, in todays world, the CAtholic Chirch is one of Sciences biggest supporters (It had managed to "evolve" in the overturn of VAtican I and the publication of Humani Generis by Pious XII and then reaffirmation and strengthening of 'Humani.... by John Paul XXIII and then , finally, the overturn of "antimaterialist theory" by Benedict)

The Evangelicals, a much smaller, but mire vocal minority, dont pander to highly educated people. They seek pout the pockets of "Ole Time Religion" seekers and do their things to Science. Having a Boble that is (gasp) full of errors, is not a good thing to Evangelicals. They have no time to explain about Metaphor and imagery. The Boble is INERRANT , God said it, and thats good enough for them.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

The Boble is INERRANT , God said it, and thats good enough for them.

But the Bible is not literrally true. Perfect God, pefect message, imperfect medium, imperfect humans......something has to give and it is torn right between perfect message and imperfect medium. The Bible is considered the word of God because of its inner truth, not its literal meaning. Unless you like money and want to stand out in front of people and showboat. I think this is such an american problem because of the vast distances you have from civilisation to the Bible belt. People dont mix easily over those distances.

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Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

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