Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

@Ionus,

farmerman said

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Theres nothing new out there in the Creation or ID warehouse of brilliant ideas.

AOnus Said

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Come on, Gomer..you can do better than that...

Why do I need to? Im merely stating a factt that Creationists have nothing new with which to argue so therefore many of us get really sensitive to when someone(like you)claims to be a supporter of evolution yet fails to understand , or seeks to deny, the basic language or the factual underpinnings of the science. You seem a bit disengenuous in that. (Ive spent too may years in public arenas trying to counter the idiocy of creeping Fundamentalism in our public schools ,and Im always looking our for these "code phrases" like "Its only a theory and a theory isnt a fact").

Illet the audience decide whos the Hillbilly. I am casting no crude ad-hominems at you, Im merely and doggedly tryng to get you to see the differences that exist between your opinion and the world of what really is (SMiley face). Usually you start getting crude and insulting when you are on the forecastle of a sinking ship. (like your recent DNA and geologic evidence postures). You give yourself away , and "You blink" by engaging in ad hominems.

(You were getting nicely hammered by Setanta when you started the "**** for brains" ad hominems, and I was nicely getting my point across re" epigenesis when you started making the lying ad hominems about sexual coingress with farm animals and the reference to a Hillbilly TV personality). So obviously since youve drug out the "Gomer" title, it means you are getting frustrated and have reached the end of your string of "logic". While I am only beginning to get would up. Idf you wish to argue this point like an adult I can provide you even more references on the point from many giants in the sciencees.

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@Ionus,

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So we can distinguish between facts and theories. What science worshippers like you fail to take into account is that science is a long way from explaining everything.

Your penchant to conflate is astounding. ASpecific facts support a particular theory, and the fact that we dont know everything about everything else has nothing to do with your attempted point. Your just grandstanding with nothing to add.

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@Ionus,

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In a democracy expression of opinion and freedom of religion are foundational. Why is this only a problem in the USA ?

Well, the US IS NOT a democracy and besides, we have spent a lot of time in our first semester of being to develop a strong constitution that lays out our immutable rights and our Congresses, even though they sometimes exceed these Rights, our SUpreme Court usually reigns them in.
You have to accept that our way of governance requires careful and continued reviews based upon the framers work. What other countries do is only of interest to them, not to us(except to serve as bad examples).
We borrowed heavily from previous works and constitutional documents and we sought to adopt what was good in them and to reject the mistakes that , say, Magna Carta had made.

Britain hs a state religion, we do not. QWe reject anything that smacks of state religions and any of this Creationism trying to make its way into curricula is merely one minority religious opinion trying to wiggle its worldview into our schools.We vigorously fight that cause we dont want to support a particular worldview, we thereofre fight agains ALL religious worldviews in our public schools. WE DO allow those so inclined to start thewir own schools as long as they meet the requirements for ed units established by eah separate state.
Its really not difficult to understand or accept and it makes us unique (except for other countries that maintain similar separations of churches and states)

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(were Englih) And proud of it. Why ? Do you wear a pikelhaub ?

No, we dont , but neither do we wear redcoats or buffeteer silly hats. WE managed to kick those pompous lemmings out of our country over 200 years ago, deal with it.

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@farmerman,

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Obviously reading comprehension isnt your strong point

Your opinion means nothing. You were stuck on believing that Iw as religious (I am not) and that I was a fundamentalist...yet you worry about the reading comprehension of others... Rolling Eyes

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there is some kind of hierarchy implied between theories and facts in science.

Of course there isfacts are used to form a theory..without enough facts it is a hypothesis....being a theory is not absolutely correct...it needs work, when it is established as correct it can be considered as fact. Many things will never be fact and remain theory because they can never be proven.

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obstreporous

Get your hand off it. Do you think you can impress with big words ?
How do you think any scientific facts have been established ? Wasnt Newtonian Gravity a theory ?

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I dont know of any scientific Theory that separates or Layers its facts and lies at a lower level than its bag of supportive facts.

Neither do I...you really are having trouble arent you ? Are you very stressed ?

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So you are in good Creationist company even though you claim to understand evolutions "truth"

Strange you should use truth. You mean the underlying facts that support evolution. Lets leave truth for religion.
If the theory of evolution could be 100% varified as fact, what would it be then ?

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@farmerman,

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claims to be a supporter of evolution yet fails to understand , or seeks to deny, the basic language or the factual underpinnings of the science.

Show me facts that support your theory...direct quotes...

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"Its only a theory and a theory isnt a fact".

Are you saying all theories are factual ? Perhaps there has never been a theory that was wrong.

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I am casting no crude ad-hominems at you

You dont read your own posts do you ?

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Usually you start getting crude and insulting when you are on the forecastle of a sinking ship.

For the better part of over a thousand posts I was always the second one to exchange insults. Clowns like you expected to be able to throw the odd insult in and get away with it snickering and sneering with your support group of bitches here patting you on the back. But I upped the ante. SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE.....Gomer the hillbilly marine didnt like it. Now his only option is to say I am bad person for insulting him back....diddims !

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it means you are getting frustrated and have reached the end of your string of "logic"

Really ? Is that what it means when I retaliate ? What does it mean when you start it, sooky ?

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Idf you wish to argue this point like an adult

Oh but I do... and you argue for yourself or admit you are not up to it. YOU tell me what is wrong with what has been said already...we dont need another set to google for us.

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@farmerman,

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Your penchant to conflate is astounding.

Prove it. Unsupported statements are worth less than flatulance.

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the fact that we dont know everything about everything else has nothing to do with your attempted point

It has everything to do with it. We are not even in the hypothesis stage of understanding life but you understand religion and can eliminate it. How ? By proving God doesnt exist ? By proving a negative ?

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Your just grandstanding with nothing to add.

Nice hypothesis...any facts ?

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@farmerman,

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Britain hs a state religion, we do not.

Makes one wonder why the Agricultural Revolution and the Industrial Revolution started there rather than the USA...did they cheat ? Why have they produced some of the worlds finest scientists, esp Newton, if a state religion is so restrictive of science ? And who does the USA have ? A really wierd person with a kite and string ...and a thief with an inventive streak. It doesnt seem like separation is working for you lot does it ? The Manhatten project had to borrow scientists from all over the world, including Jews raised in religion.

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Farmerman, edgarblythe, Jason Proudmoore,
There is a popular quote circulating the internet:
"Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory."

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@wandeljw,

A most apt quote.
I don't mind that our two opponents on this thread choose wilful ignorance. It is their zeal to keep others from knowing anything that I find disturbing. They want to squeeze science out of the schools or dilute it down to insipid quantities. In their ardor they became the pigeons.

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@edgarblythe,

It must be strange running around with silly ideas like that in your Ed all day.

If I had had you in a corner of the bar old boy I would show you some science which would fry your brain, turn your hair a whiter shade of grey and have you running down the road as fast as your little legs could carry you.

What you know about science could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a slurry gun. Same for wande. With fm I would go up to a shithouse wall.

The "most apt quote" has been doing the rounds since Caractacus was a lad.

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@edgarblythe,

I feel that all we can do is provide information on a topic. If the pair fail to comprehend , (or deny) simple facts, then its no skin off my back. Distance between debates partners always allows for lively exchange and our exchange partners have some issues with interpretation of simple issues.
I imagine that were we all in a single room espwecially ionus would be meek as a kitten and wouldnt act like hes insane.

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@farmerman,

What facts have I denied fm?

Unless you can point to one it is trousers off your arse to claim I have denied any without providing the evidence.

You're denying facts all the time. You are in total denial that what when on in Dover was only what appeared in the reports. You are in total denial that your side have personal motives for attacking religion. You are in total denial that your side's spin is all there is to these issues.

You wouldn't stay in a room five minutes with me and no other witnesses. That's why I've been on and off Ignore with you.

You have failed to comment on the latest news on Ida. You are permanently in denial. You are in total denial that the Texas senator meant something significant when he referred to "controversial issues" as reported by wande. I don't know if any other senator has come out for your side but I've not seen one do and you're in total denial of that.

You just want everybody to agree to your side's spin and without offering any opposition. If somebody does they are a dipso dipshit and if two do they should "get a room".

You're in denial that the Pope was the power behind the outcome at the Art (ahem!) exhibition.

You're in denial that you are in denial. Instead I'm accused of being in denial and with nothing but an evidence free assertion, which little girls can do, and I could make a list of your denials all day long if I had the time.

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@wandeljw,

Speaking for myself, exactly how am I a creationist ? Perhaps you lot dont like facts they interfere with your preformed opinion. It is so painful to change isnt it ? You argue with creationists...if anyone argues with you they must be a creationist...sure, that sounds scientific.

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@edgarblythe,

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I don't mind that our two opponents on this thread choose wilful ignorance

What are we willfully ignorant of ?

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It is their zeal to keep others from knowing anything that I find disturbing.

How has this zeal been displayed ? Who are the others ? Why do they know nothing and how are we perpetuating their ignorance ? Why have you excluded yourself from the line up of the ignorant ?

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They want to squeeze science out of the schools or dilute it down to insipid quantities.

How many times have I said it ? I want science to be taught in schools and religion as well. It is only the USA that thinks this is the end of the world. Perhaps there is something wrong with the rleigious there but it works everywhere else. You seem to always argue with creationists and you dont know how to change tack...you are going on about irrelevant stuff that is embarrassing to someone expecting a certain level of intelligence.

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@farmerman,

Hahahahahahahahaha ! ROFLMAO !!

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I imagine that were we all in a single room espwecially ionus would be meek as a kitten and wouldnt act like hes insane.

Your imagination is the problem, Try to use science. I have never been in a room where I did not think that in the worst case scenario I could not kill anyone who might be a threat. If you want to talk insanity, your inability to debate or to even read correctly what is written is a matter you should be concerned about. An independant observer would be worried about your logic and relevance.

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@Ionus,

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Makes one wonder why the Agricultural Revolution and the Industrial Revolution started there rather than the USA...did they cheat ? Why have they produced some of the worlds finest scientists, esp Newton, if a state religion is so restrictive of science ? And who does the USA have ? A really wierd person with a kite and string ...and a thief with an inventive streak. It doesnt seem like separation is working for you lot does it ? The Manhatten project had to borrow scientists from all over the world, including Jews raised in religion.

I really hadda laugh at this. Your national pride is starting to sound like Xenophobia Very Happy

. Im not arguing anything about whose nation is smarter or who has roduced more gimcrackees (Thats childish). Im only interested in the fact that I appear to be much smarter than you in this area of inquiry, and youre having a lot of trouble with that fact.
Most all science is collaborative and its not some high school basketball game. Anyway, if I was British in WWII, Id be more wanting to kiss the ass of the Russians rather than just cast silly Xenophobic crap at the US.

AS far as our "separation of church and state" It works out very well, even despite the hues and cries of the Tiny Minority of Evangelicals who are the wagers of the culture wars.

AMeriac is a mongrel nation, we arent as "racially" identifiable as the litt;le country of the UK. We have only learned to cast off our colonial lenses and celebrate our diversity. For a nation thats less than 250 years old, we aint doing that bad. Well happily try to pull your homelands ass out of the fire again if we have to since its what we do.

BTW, do you really think that the Industrial Revolution was vecause some state religion spurred it on? You are a real revisionist then. You and spendi share a lot of the same mythos. He feels that all science owes its beginnings to Christianity. Science really developed despite Christianity, not because of it.

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@Ionus,

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I have never been in a room where I did not think that in the worst case scenario I could not kill anyone who might be a threat. If you want to talk insanity,

I agree, you do have some issues that need resolving. Im all wounded and missing parts from exposive rounds and yet Ive managed to put that behind me and wish my former attackers well. Ive lost several key friend and acquaintences and keep in touch with my old protector units of MArines at parade days and special get-togethers. There are guys whove had trouble putting **** behind them because all that intense action had defined their entire lives and its hard to leave go. I think its easier when your all boogered up and wear scars and are daily reminded that you escaped with your life and some others didnt. Nobodies a hero or desrves any special consideration unless they have been so hurt inside that their present lives are a mere shadow.

I know a little more about you Ionus by you pulling back the curtain of your experience. Marines whove seen action have problems putting that crap in its little box unless theyve lost some body parts.

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@farmerman,

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Your national pride is starting to sound like Xenophobia

Then you will be surprised to learn I have very little national pride, in fact I am really pissed at my country. You do realise I am australian ?

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do you really think that the Industrial Revolution was vecause some state religion spurred it on?

No I dont. That is why I didnt say that. You need to read a post before you comment on it. As two examples, you should realise there is something else at stake than separation of church and state if the USA has so much political trouble and doesnt have the science track record to show it as worthwhile.

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Science really developed despite Christianity, not because of it.

It was religion (christianity and islam) that kept science alive whilst non-believers were busy pillaging, burning, raping and looting in their lab coats. Eventually science was released into the world, not by the barbarian non-believers but by the church.

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@farmerman,

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Im all wounded and missing parts from exposive rounds and yet Ive managed to put that behind me and wish my former attackers well. Ive lost several key friend and acquaintences and keep in touch with my old protector units of MArines at parade days and special get-togethers.

It seems you are a better man than me, as I carry too much bitterness for my own health but I still maintain I am the more accurate in debate.

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Marines whove seen action have problems putting that crap in its little box unless theyve lost some body parts.

Well if they stuff up the surgery again the body part I will be missing IS the body...but that is a solution of sorts too.

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@Ionus,

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It was religion (christianity and islam) that kept science alive whilst non-believers were busy pillaging, burning, raping and looting in their lab coats. Eventually science was released into the world, not by the barbarian non-believers but by the church.

Revisionim, thy first name is Ionus.
Youve forgotten that most of the world didnt even give a rats ass about Christianity. CHina India and The Arabian peninsula ere busy doing all the heavy scientific lifting while EUrope was wallowing in filth.

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As two examples, you should realise there is something else at stake than separation of church and state if the USA has so much political trouble and doesnt have the science track record to show it as worthwhile.

Im not even sure what youre talking about here. You clearly say one thing and then deny that you just said it and blame me for comp skills. SO, with that in mind. WHAT THE HELL IS THE ABOVE SAYING?

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Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

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