Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

@farmerman,

I remember the original in Ann Arbor

@Ionus,

That explanation from Wikipdia is kind of bullshitty from a Philosophical basis. Its wholly incomplete when speaking of science Heres a simple series of explanations that are from Answers.com, this one HAS AN AUTHOR (Wikipedia doesnt even have the balls to give by-lines and they dont stop publishing even if something hasnt been peer reviewed so there are many bullshitty Wikipedia answers)

Quote:

Hypothesis

A hypothesis is an educated guess, based on observation. Usually, a hypothesis can be supported or refuted through experimentation or more observation. A hypothesis can be disproven, but not proven to be true.

Example: If you see no difference in the cleaning ability of various laundry detergents, you might hypothesize that cleaning effectiveness is not affected by which detergent you use. You can see this hypothesis can be disproven if a stain is removed by one detergent and not another. On the other hand, you cannot prove the hypothesis. Even if you never see a difference in the cleanliness of your clothes after trying a thousand detergents, there might be one you haven't tried that could be different.

Theory

A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. Basically, if evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, then the hypothesis can become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. One definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis.

Example: It is known that on June 30, 1908 in Tunguska, Siberia, there was an explosion equivalent to the detonation of about 15 million tons of TNT. Many hypotheses have been proposed for what caused the explosion. It is theorized that the explosion was caused by a natural extraterrestrial phenomenon, and was not caused by man. Is this theory a fact? No. The event is a recorded fact. Is this this theory generally accepted to be true, based on evidence to-date? Yes. Can this theory be shown to be false and be discarded? Yes.

Law

A law generalizes a body of observations. At the time it is made, no exceptions have been found to a law. Scientific laws explain things, but they do not describe them. One way to tell a law and a theory apart is to ask if the description gives you a means to explain 'why'.

Example: Consider Newton's Law of Gravity. Newton could use this law to predict the behavior of a dropped object, but he couldn't explain why it happened.

As you can see, there is no 'proof' or absolute 'truth' in science. The closest we get are facts, which are indisputable observations. Note, however, if you define proof as arriving at a logical conclusion, based on the evidence, then there is 'proof' in science. I work under the definition that to prove something implies it can never be wrong, which is different. If you're asked to define hypothesis, theory, and law, keep in mind the definitions of proof and of these words can vary slightly depending on the scientific discipline. What is important is to realize they don't all mean the same thing and cannot be used interchangeably.

An explanation in which ALL the evidence supports and NONE refutes. Thats still the best definition and Its attributed to SJ GOULD

Quote:

A Theory is an explanatory system of propositions, general principles, or laws, inferred from phenomena and linking known facts and observations; A theory is held to be true until contradicted or amended by new evidence.Examples, Quantum Theory, Theory of Evolution,Theory of Continental Drift

.

This one is from the Glossary of Geology,fifth ed. Unlike Wikipedia The Glossary is a toolbook and is a real source for information about the geologic sciences

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

you mean the original DOminos? Ann Arbor? I thought he started in Florida.(Maybe thats just where Ave MAria University is located)

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Quote:

That is exactly what it is...a level of degree.

BULLSHIT, are you that dense? A theory in science is composed of facts. A scientific theory IS NOT a level of degree. Its either all right or its no longer a valid theory.

NAme one facts that refutes the theory of evolution.
PS its the LAW of Gravity and its the THEORY of Universal Magnetism. A law is usually describable by a single equation while a theory is not. S=0.5 gT** (solve for g and thats the dropping brick)

Im hoping this finally gets through. Otherwise , I give up.

2 Replies

@farmerman,

Would you read your own bullshit for a second time because you have not understood yourself. So it is impossible for a theory to be upgraded to fact, as in a Law is a fact...curious...you think man started out with the situation exactly as it is now....no theory has ever progressed to Law ? How did Newton go about it ? And now his theory has been overturned, but it was Law for a long time. It is still accurate enough to be used.

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Boy you really are defiantly ignorant about some things. Here , read it for yourself, Steve Gould was the master at explaining this concept of fact and theory.http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_fact-and-theory.html

1 Reply

Before I understood about theory, I used to become angry that people would dismiss evolution as "just a theory," because I knew the concept to be scientifically sound. Then I learned to distinguish between hypothesis and theory. I still wish the anti crowd would at least learn that much, whether they want to accept it as true or not.

2 Replies

@edgarblythe,

The argument that Aonus makes does get tiresome because while he thinks hes being clever, He doesnt realize that its an old old chestnut that's been thrown around so much already.
Theres nothing new out there in the Creation or ID warehouse of brilliant ideas.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

What backwards non-thinkers like spendius and the extreme Christian right fail to recognize is that science is based on observation and testing. These people spout out what ever comes to mind without any observation, testing, research or confirmation other than that of their fellow travelers.

3 Replies

@farmerman,

Quote:

NAme one facts that refutes the theory of evolution.

That we would be in the **** if we took it to heart. You don't take it to heart. When that chap was making up to your Mrs at the art (ahem!) exhibition you didn't charge at him forehead first. You didn't want to make a scene did you? And perhaps he was a big lad. Oh no--you relied on your lady being a good girl like the Pope says they should be. Every woman gets a bit aroused when a decent looking chap gives her the eye at an art (ahem!!) exhibition. It's natural. There's scientific biological evidence that it is perfectly natural. Which is, as I've said, everything in the world not subjected to the application of male intelligence and action. It's another scientific fact that male intelligence has been applied and artificially too. That's real art. Whether it lasts is another matter and one in which we are deeply embroiled on this, and other, threads.

You don't get male toss-pots at art (ahem!!!) exhibitions with confidence enough to engage in a bit of fun. Now you don't. That'll be another scientific fact I should think. She would have been bored out of her head looking at art (ahem!!!) works. They go to a lot of trouble to make themselves look tasty when they are being dragged, (okay-not by the hair), to a bloody art (ahem!!!!!) exhibition. That's a scientific fact too. Some chaps go to art (!!!!!!) exhibitions to check them out. Anybody can wave their arms about in front of an art (!!!!!!!) exhibit and talk like Malcolm Muggeridge. (Bless his dear soul). It's easy with a bit of practice.

I tried practicing it once in a mirror but I laughed so much I gave it up except for the odd performance when I've had a few. The Unmade Bed is my speciality.

Could you have relied on the scientific facts of evolution to get to the outcome you managed to with the challenge. Any self-respecting buffalo would have had him shoved into a corner and head butted into insensibility between the Empty Petrol Cans in the Cubist style and the landscape depicting a Pittsburg steel mill at full throttle after sundown.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

For years, I was told that the Domino's in Ann Arbor . . . had a brightly lit, square sign. . . was the first. Just read two internet accounts, one said the original was in AA while the other said it was in neighboring Ypsilanti. What was constant between the two accounts was that the founder of Domino's and his brother bought an existing pizza joint named Dominick's, then, when the brother left, the business was renamed Domino's.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

spendi (and I assume ionus) arent supporters of Creationism or ID except in their senses that these issues deserve an airing. I fully agree that everything be accorded a place to be aired. My only argument is that its incredibly stupid to try to invite the "vampire" of Fundamentalism into the public schools. The Constitution (and its several rulings from the Supreme Court) has made the point clearly for this topic to be invalid. However, the Creationists and the IDers dont want to have merely a place to air their beliefs as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. Instead,They want to take their beliefs and ram them down the throats of our students in public schools, this is Unconstitutional and the spendi /Ionus crowd, while thinking they are being more "open minded" dont get the point at all. Its not lost on most of us that these two are of English extraction where the boundary lines of law and religion are more blurred.

3 Replies

@plainoldme,

The owner and CEO of the DOminoes chain is a practicing " Crazy Charismatic Catholic". These guys are basically fundamentalists without the backing of any archdiocese.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

Quote:

What backwards non-thinkers like spendius and the extreme Christian right fail to recognize is that science is based on observation and testing.

I just did a post about observation and testing POM. You don't think I would make that stuff up of the top of my head. The clean prose should be sufficient to satisfy a literary mind that I know of what I spoke. I'm a bloody scientist and I don't need little trite homilies from the likes of you to tell me what science is based on. Why do you think I have so much confidence in the Catholic Church. Yes--observation and testing. Nearly to destruction but I got out by the skin of my teeth and lived to tell the tale. Not as good as Proust did mind you. I can but try. And that Laurence Sterne eh?? What a writer.
What a companion for a loose hour. I carry it around with me. Aunt Dinah and the Widow Wadman and Uncle Toby. And Walter Shandy who is the prototype for my opponents on here. The hero's father.

I've done my research. Observed and tested and drawn scientific conclusions.

By using science to jack off some personal issues they have with the Pope they denigrate science and and drag its sacred name through the mud.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

My kids are big on boycotting businesses that have bad environmental records and whose politics are questionable. They long ago refused to ever eat at Domino's because of the anti-abortion rights stand of the founder. However, my youngest once worked at a liquor store whose owner also bought the local Domino's franchise, so his view was that profits went to the franchise holder. The woman was trying to learn the food distribution industry from the ground up. She has since sold both businesses.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

I agree that the teaching of Creationism/ID in public schools is UnConstitutional. I also agree that the Creationism/ID crowd is ramming it down the throats of the general public. What I see of spend and ionus here is their continuing state of high dudgeon. Could they be so upset if they weren't supporters of C/ID or are they just devil's advocates?

Once upon a time, home schoolers were leftists who were critical of the inadequacies of public schools in the teaching of literature, writing, math and science who formed associations to teach kids at a higher level than found in their local schools.

I could sympathize with them. However, now that the religious right has taken over the concept of home schooling, every time I run across a home schooler, I become cautious. However, I do know of a home schooling co-operative in Waltham, MA that is terrific. An MIT prof teaches science to the kiddies.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

My only argument is that its incredibly stupid to try to invite the "vampire" of Fundamentalism into the public schools.

Frightened of vampires now are we? You just drive a stake through their heart. It's a piece of piss. Fundamentalism was rife when you lot were kids and look at you now. It'll soon resemble a clearing in the jungle where a troupe of monkeys live if current trends continue.

I know your game fm. You want to stop the kids having the fun you had. A lot of old cocks are like that. How exciting is sex when it's not a terrible sin. It's like wringing a dishcloth out. No need for all that borrowing a car and picking her up with her Mom and Pop waving her off thinking she going to a movie or a bowling alley. You could just shag her on the rug in front of the telly if it wasn't a bloody sin. I'm sure it's not illegal. Not a sin and not illegal--where does that leave us?

And don't be tempted to eschew your dignity to such an extent as to think Ionus and myself are one and the same. Even just attempting to give the impression of it. All it shows is how uneducated you are. It shows nothing about me and Ionus and for you to think others might think otherwise is profoundly insulting to their intelligence far more than words can express.

Why do you always seek to advise others to come to the same conclusions as you when they are looking at the same evidence as you. Are you concerned that they can't read as good as you and thus need your paternal guidance. What a patronising pillock you are. Is "most of us" intended to be a rounding up of the geniuses. Make them think they are superior to the "rest of us" knowing that Ionus and myself are of English extraction. And the "rest of us" can now be happy having been informed of it.

Vampires my fat arse. They are singalong happy-clappies who enjoy sermons about how naughty they are. And the ladies look lovely in their Sunday Best and the real-estate deals get stitched up while the Moms barter their sons and daughters. What a deal. You're just jealous.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

Quote:

However, now that the religious right has taken over the concept of home schooling, every time I run across a home schooler, I become cautious. However, I do know of a home schooling co-operative in Waltham, MA that is terrific.

That's terrific science I must say. The observed excellence of the Waltham school is overwhelmed by the "idea" that the religious right has taken over home-schooling to such an extent that the observed evidence is set aside in favour of the "idea" (which is an assertion) in order to judge someone "run across".

The home-schooler might hope that you take your caution to the limit and steer right round them with that sort of science in your head.

0 Replies

@spendius,

Quote:

And don't be tempted to eschew your dignity to such an extent as to think Ionus and myself are one and the same. Even just attempting to give the impression of it. All it shows is how uneducated you are.

At least my reading comprehension arent so poor as to confuse who actually made that claim Very Happy

Quote:

I know your game fm. You want to stop the kids having the fun you had. A lot of old cocks are like that.

You are exuding spittle about your festering gob you old dipshit.

Quote:

Make them think they are superior to the "rest of us" knowing that Ionus and myself are of English extraction. And the "rest of us" can now be happy having been informed of it.

ctually, I was trying to be kind, since the alternative would have been to state how symmetrically ignorant you both are. OK which is it?

Quote:

How exciting is sex when it's not a terrible sin. It's like wringing a dishcloth out.

Now I know that youre probably some old burnt out parish priest with a
:fraktur"sense of reality

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Quote:

You are having enought rouble with your beliefs, dont worry about mine.

No, Ionus, I wanna help you find reason.

Quote:

But by your logic, the natural world was created by the supernatural therefore it is un-natural.

Exactly!

Quote:

Your logic is shockingly bad and painful to read.

And yet, you still read it...ironic...anyone?

Quote:

That tells me you understand very little if anything about the topic.

And what is your explanation? What don't I understand...you seem to be a good debater, sarcastically speaking of course.

Quote:

Read something on the construction of the human brain and decision making therein...ANYTHING....

So what? What are you saying? I'm explaining to you what "intuition" means, in a way that a person with a two digit IQ could understand...and it seems you are having problems with it.

Quote:

Dont change what you said...

I did not change anything...

Quote:

you said the Bible and went to great pains to show what you thought were quotes that proved your point...

I gave you the verses from the Bible that teach or promote that the Earth is flat...deal with it.

Quote:

will you admit the Bible does not promote a flat earth ?

I've already told you that the Bible promotes the earth as being flat, and I even provided you with a little video and an illustration regarding what the ancients knew about Earth, and the verses...and did you know that the ancients rejected the idea of a world being spherical...after the library of Alexandria was burned, later Eratosthenes's work was found and the idea was still rejected by the church...it was then later that Christopher Columbus confirmed the fact....what do you say about that? Do you also reject this?

Quote:

Man up, wimp.

Quote:

Wrong. Most sailing societies knew the earth was round by being able to see the top of a ship before seeing the hull.

So, are you actually telling me that the ancients used the word "round" for "sphere", knowing that the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, and even the Hebrews knew the difference between the two?
This is what is considered a flat Earth or dome.

http://www.daysleeper.co.uk/work/flat_earth.jpg

It still round, but it isn't a sphere...it's a dome.
If you have ever taken a Geometry class in your life (which I doubt you have), you would know the difference between a circle and a sphere. this is what's considered a sphere or ball:

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/BlueMarble/Images/AS17-148-22727_350.jpg

Can you see the difference?

Quote:

Wrong. Most sailing societies knew the earth was round by being able to see the top of a ship before seeing the hull.

What societies? Are you aware of what you're saying here? How come the church rejected the idea of the world being flat? or even yet, why did the church rejected the idea of the Earth revolving around the sun?

Quote:

You worship a man ? Of course you do....

I already told you that Einstein is the way.

Quote:

JUST ? You arent trying to fluff up your point are you ? When science has a complete working model of the brain you can dismiss other theories with a wave of your hand.

Are you saying that even when science has a naturalistic explanation about Alien Hand Syndrome, we have to dismiss that and attribute it to spirit possession?

Quote:

Ancient people had a very good reason to believe people were possessed...

Despite whether the ancients believed that the hand was possessed by spirits, didn't make it factual...

Quote:

their normal functioning had been taked over...drugs and disease were attributed to a spritual world and this was a reasonable explanation for the time.

And we now know that drugs nor diseases can be attributed a " spritual world"...it was a erroneous explanation of the time that is considered preposterous now.

Quote:

I think you show yourself to be very unscientific and quite limited in intellect.

And you have proven that by implementing all the straw-men arguments from your arsenal of ignorance.

Quote:

Do you bother to read what you type ?

Yes...and your posts serve me as great entertainment...but you already knew that.

Quote:

Prayer can cure alien hand syndrome and it will help a person to deal with a missing leg.

Prayer has proven to be worthless....if you were a little scientific, you've would've known that there have been several scientific investigations performed by universities on the power of prayer...but I don't expect you to know this...I'm just trying to help you out.

Quote:

Show me what science has done to the natural world, to society..to fools like you who worship themselves and man ?

If you insist:

http://media.rd.com/rd/images/rdc/mag0703/battlefield-advances-jacques-c-leg-05-ss.jpg

http://www.jordanzane.com/JodanECMO2.jpg

http://www.learnnc.org/lp/media/uploads/2007/10/smallpox-victim.jpg

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2002/12/12-vaccine.jpg

I have more where those came from...or do you think it's enough?

Quote:

Unbelievable dribble....science has not killed anyone?

No, science doesn't kill anyone...however, with irrational people like you and religious extremists, science would prove dangerous...that's why we must promote education and separation of church and state for the citizens of the world.

Quote:

It is just some friendly discussion ?

As long as both parties understand the concept of diplomacy.

Quote:

The world is in better shape for having science and fools like you worship it ?

And other countries are in despair for having people like these:

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-3/taliban-fighters-3.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2VtJsx77GVY/SS7p0WyaUFI/AAAAAAAAEqo/tR6FNVjoI4s/s400/PopeBenedictXVI_kids.jpg

Quote:

What a pathetic cop out. Dont you get embarrassed to be seen as this silly ? Science creates the problem and the best it can do to solve it is voluntary birth control ?

Don't avoid the question I'm going to ask you...but what should be the best method to solving the problem of over population other than education the uneducated on the matters of birth control? This should be interesting.

Quote:

And you blame religion for everyone living longer and breeding more

No...I am blaming religion for all the atrocities done in the name of it...and in this case, I blame it on the African Christian ministry telling lies about condoms, which resulted in a massive spread of the HIV virus...and I also blame it on the rejection of birth control, which contributes to the global over population we are facing right now.

Quote:

Arent you the clown who said religion has killed more people than any other cause ? Or was that one of your fellow worshippers ?

No, really....religion has killed and still kills more than any other cause, as you put it.

Quote:

You left out Carl Sagan and yourself...you clearly worship yourself...

Thank you for reminding me.

Quote:

Your stupidity is undermining your side.

Great argument! Ten points.

Quote:

That is suitable ?

It's very suitable.

Quote:

Are you abusing steroids ?

Since you have examined my avatar picture and claim to be an expert on my body, does it look like I've been abusing steroids?

Quote:

Got little man syndrome ?

It's not a syndrome...it's your condition to see reason, my deluded friend.

Quote:

How does that apply to me, because I have never said I believe in the Bible to be litterally true, but we shouldnt let facts get in the way of a fool and his ranting.

Your inclination toward the Bible and your rejection of science is a very clear give-away...take that for a fact.

Quote:

What you likee to do is to list the good points of science and the bad points of religion. Are you aware of any bad points to science ?

And list all the good things that religion has done that secular humanist rationalism would not do...good luck with that.

Quote:

You dont see any problems with science do you ? You see yourself as powerful but I see lots of problems with science and a little man trying to look big.

I see a problem with science and the religious nut...two entities that don't belong together.

Quote:

No I dont find you attractive ...

I beg to differ.

Quote:

I am just shocked that someone could have such a public display of masturbation and not be embarrassed for being seen as a narcistic homosexual.

I like when you try to label me as homosexual while you have seemed to have studied my avatar picture so thoroughly...

Quote:

No, I leave you in your own hands in front of the mirror.

Are you offering your hand to me? Twisted Evil

1 Reply

Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know