Narcissism...how normal is it? Or nightmare father II.

You have my sympathy. You had described my father to a T, as near as I can tell. How it affected me (after 10 yrs of counseling in my '30s -early-40s) is that I have grown a conscience and remind myself almost daily that many people see the world differently than I . I allow all this to guide me when I find there's a conflict. I do pretty well with this raised awareness as no one would know about my narcissistic tendency unless they knew me REALLY well. By that point, they're already onboard or ride me about the issue.

So true! I was hoping the Americans might be really open about this, because Australian culture is more vain about humility than USians, I think...and I suspect the Brits are the same.

Here, if you just did something heroic and incredibly difficult, you're supposed to murmur diffidently that it was nothing special, anyone could have done it etc.

The culture is changing, and one may see unseemly displays of triumphalism and all, but overall I think USians find it way more acceptable to crow.

Our countries, I think, are more likely to get into meek contests!

So...they're really different?

This is an interesting discussion!

I've dealt with a clinical narcissist (that is, diagnosed and everything) and he's definitely DIFFERENT from other, non-narcissitic people. Perhaps it's just a matter of degree but that's true of most disorders, right? (We all have elements of OCD but the very fact that we can keep it in check is what makes us "normal," as opposed to actually OCD, etc.)

In matters of sport and military might, most definitely.
We expect more modest behavior from men of science and letters.
And, of course, from actual heroes. ("Aw, shucks, anyone would have swum
that burning river to rescue her. I just happened to see her first.")

Yes. But I guess we kind of have to think we're the centre of the universe to get over the existential awfulness of how insignificant we are? But some of us have a more realistic appraisal going on, and hide the traces of any weird thinking better?

Or is that just a western individualistic kind of thing?

"Oh, this? (both arms blown away, and a leg hanging by a thread) It's just a flesh wound. I couldn't have done it without the chaps."

Ah! You learned to hide them!!!

Do I dare ask you about the effects? You don't have to say anything, of course!

I think it's a natural starting point since we all ARE the center of our own worlds in a concrete way... People who are narcissists fail to evolve beyond that, for whatever reason (or regress back to that natural first impression).

I think the rest of us do have some sort of process of evolution where we become more aware of the rest of the world and our relatively insignificant place in it.

Which doesn't mean we didn't all go through that phase and maintain some traces of it, just that we are better able to.. contextualize, maybe. ("I felt like I caused that to happen but I know that's much more likely to be a coincidence than anything that I could actually control.")

Yes...babies are the ultimate narcissists. And the PDs all have a really primitive feel to them.

Let me think about that, OK?

(Lost this thread & just found it again.)

I guess I did learn, but being a narcissist I'm not so objective. I think this is hidden but amazingly the world has seemed to adapt or accommodate me 'cause I'm so lovable and fascinating! I am so worthy.

Fairly briefly, if that's OK, Deb.

I only became aware of this "condition" as a result of post relationship break-up counseling.

Yes, it was extremely debilitating to be involved with such a person for a very long time. You might ask, so why stay in such a situation for so long? Well, because a narcissist does not necessarily present themselves as such to other people. This was a highly intelligent person, who also presented himself as a pretty sensitive, socially aware person. A very attractive person. That was the person I became involved with in the first place. Then, bit by bit, so slowly you'd hardly even notice .. the real personality emerged.

So the problem became one of my original perceptions (I'd always considered myself a pretty good judge of character) & these conflicting "episodes" where entirely different behaviour and attitudes would show their ugly face. I've often wondered if narcissists only show these real aspects of themselves to people they know truly accept & love them? Because to anyone else (he holds a very responsible position) he appears reasonable, a "liberal" thinker, a kind & considerate person, quite charming, really ....

It is living & coping with the conflicts of your own perception of who that person actually is that does the damage. At least in my case. I think he actually cared for me a lot (as much as he was actually capable of caring for someone outside of himself) but .... caring for such a person can involve intricate juggling acts with your own perceptions. And that is where the harm is done. I am so glad it is over & I can see things clearly again now. It has taken me quite a few years to fully "recover" myself. Now I am so glad that that relationship is history. Because, at the worst times, I seriously wondered if I would actually survive it.

Your dad also had a case of self righteousness. Most people really dont get the detail of it, especially when they are embroiled in it. They think they are perfect, they fail to look into the toilet they just used before they flush you down the drain. It is completely destructive and accomplishes , well, not much at all.

Frankly, Deb, I think narcissism is a cover for insecurity. In mythology, when you consider Narcissus continually looking at himself in the water, it bodes of a certain need for assurance that his good looks will prevail.

Well, yes.

But...how common is insecurity? I mean, we ARE insecure. Nobody here gets out alive.

Given how high my anxiety levels spiked just reading your post, ((msolga)), I can imagine how difficult that was for you to write.



I think this is probably true. You, the lucky selected one, get to hear exactly what he thinks of everyone else while his friends think he's wonderful, never realizing that they are the subject of his rants more often than not.



I'm sure this is true -- that he thought very highly of you - chose you, in fact, to be the one worthy of hearing his inner thoughts. Until those times you became the "stupid" one, just like everyone else.



I'm glad for you as well. I'm also glad you are able to open up about it a bit. It means you're truly healing, if not healed.



I understand completely. But you did survive it and you've taken the necessary steps to take back the control he had over you. Well done, indeed!

Thank you, JPB.
This is very difficult stuff to explain to anyone who hasn't been through the same sort of experience. I suspect it doesn't make sense unless one has been there & done that. Or else knows someone close to them who has.

Thank you Msolga. That really hits home.





Fascinating....I wasn't going to look in my own navel, but this is irresistible.

My dad was generally, if you didn't pay close attention, FANTASTIC in social situations...people would comment on how lucky I was to have him as a father because he was so wonderful (and he was in many ways). I would think": Who the hell IS this man they speak of?"

The home person was totally different....and, as a little kid, it was hard to make sense of this...