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Why do men shake hands with men and kiss women; why do women put up with it?

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 04:22 pm
@Thomas,
I didn't catch that either, but then I read too fast and fail to double check.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 04:44 pm
@Thomas,
Skokie is ethnically predominantly Eastern European, and has a lot of holocaust survivors. The old timers probably saw them, heard them speaking Germans, and had horrible flashbacks in which the Gestapo were comin' for 'em . . .
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 06:03 pm
@Setanta,
I feel bad when someone wants to hug me and I don't want to!!!

That's why I usually just go with it. As I said, for me there's no harm done.

I am very sensitive to doing it to people, though. This is likely because I work with so many people who have been abused, where touch can either be something they hate but do not feel entitled to be assertive about, or something they are totally indiscriminate about. I am always having to stop kids from hugging me ("Oh, I'd love to hug you, but we don't know each other well enough to do that) or point out to boundaryless parents who are trying to MAKE a kid hug me that this is a boundary breach, without being offensive. Oy veh.

I have friends who have been abused whom I have known for years, and each greeting and parting is a small, silent, negotiation....sometimes they really want a hug and a kiss, sometimes they really don't. I subtly let them decide.

I love a nice hug.
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 06:37 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Us youngsters tend to use the Terrorist fist bump anyway - faster and gets the point across.

[Robert]: "Yes, if we are to have a ritual touch to our greetings let it be this fleeting one. "

When I met with my local Unemployment Office Representative, he greeted me with a fist-bump. This was the guy who would determine whether I continued to be eligible for said Unemployment: Was I looking for work, available for work if offered, etc.?

During our greeting and after the Fist Bump, which this old white chick (me) could do, he launched into other, um, hand gestures, with which I was not familiar.

I said, "I'm sorry, I'm too white to know how to do that."

At least he laughed.
0 Replies
 
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 06:48 pm
And no, I haven't read the entire thread, but:

Quote:
BBB: I'm talking about the custom that when a man is walking down a line of people in a large croud, men and women, the man shakes the hand of the man and kisses the woman. This is a different environment than you describe...

Oh yeah, that IS different!

I'm not in any danger of EVER being in that situation, thank goodness!

In business and social situations in the US, I've never been hugged or kissed (oh, I'm female, BTW) unless I gave the non-verbal indicators that it was OK with me.

I did, however, used to very much enjoy threatening a former (female) co-worker with a hug. She hated being hugged.

I'd just hold out my arms to her and she'd flee in abject terror. I tried to resist doing this to her, but failed. It was just too much fun for me.

Come to think of it, I never did actually hug her; I wouldn't go that far.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 06:53 pm
@Setanta,
That certainly makes sense, Setanta. The Gestapo was infamous for its hugs.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 06:54 pm
@Setanta,
I also remember hearing about neonazi stuff in skokie, some time after we'd left the chicago area, which was in 1955; I presume now they were targeted events, have not googled on it. But that could be part of the background for the Mall episode.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 12:41 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

Hmmm...that's kind of awkward, though.

I do think (unless the whole damn shebang is so customary that everyone does whatever is de rigeur automatically) that a hugger has an obligation to be sensitive, as the huggee has some obligation to indicate to the hugger if they don't want to be hugged.

I don't think the onus is just on one party.

Personally, I'd find it VERY hard to SAY "Please don't hug me" to a person in a social situation. I'd more likely just do a very quick hug, and be stiff and awkward and then feel bad!

I think it's usually pretty obvious via body language if someone is not wanting a hug, and I think huggers need to respect that.

I'd hope the hugger would assess my desires as they moved in.....if I don't know someone well, and there is not an established hug protocol between us, I would normally ask if it was ok to hug, actually, or start to move in, and do a body language "is this ok?" thing before actually making contact.





I feel exactly the same way.

I think observing the huggees body languagae when approaching them needs to be observed and respected.

I don't know if it was in this thread, or somewhere else, but something was said about someone saying "may I kiss your hand?"

That is just freaking bizarre, if you ask me.

I mean, assuming you're in a situation where you want to be pleasant with this person, how are you supposed to refuse what they consider a friendly overture?

Personally, I'm not sure it is a friendly overture, but that's another story.

So you say "no, I prefer you not kiss my hand (ass clown)". This refusal is just....hanging out there. Uncomfortable.

I think I've had someone kiss my hand maybe twice in my life. Whether it was once or twice, I know I found it disgusting. I think I, without even knowing I was going to do it, rubbed the back of my hand on my pants. While doing it, I realized THAT seemed rude, but it had already been down.

Actually, maybe it was ok that the hand kisser saw me do that. I would hope it made him realize not to do that (at least to me) again.

Jesus, keep your damn lips off my hands, that's just gross, for both of us. Who knows where my hands have been?

0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 01:03 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan, I'm so glad you posted about your experiences with children. It reminds me of the recent rules that U. S. school teachers, etc. should not hug children as a result of so many pedifile events.

It is such a shame that teachers can't hug children who like or need affection from their teacher.

BBB
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 01:10 pm
I see I've stired up a lot of opinions. That's what happens when I'm feeling better and able to sit at my desk for longer time.

BBB
Heeven
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 03:04 pm
@ossobuco,
http://www.fotosearch.com/bthumb/CSP/CSP157/k1578729.jpg
Open mouth kiss Osso?
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 03:08 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
Bumble Bee Boogie wrote:
I see I've stired up a lot of opinions. That's what happens when I'm feeling better and able to sit at my desk for longer time.

Glad you're feeling better. Welcome back!
0 Replies
 
Pantalones
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 04:16 pm
I was raised in Mexico which means I've always been used to kissing females on the cheek when greeting and shaking hands with males and a sequence of handslap and fistbump with younger males (sometimes females as well). I greet my father with a kiss on the cheek as well, not everyone does this. I didn't do it as a child and don't quite remember when we started to do this.

Most of the time I even kiss females when meeting them for the first time.

I've been in more than one awkward situation while in the US when I'm hanging out with my friends (who are mostly latinos) and then they introduce me to an american female, I've tried to kiss them and they are confused and most of the times uncomfortable or maybe they just felt weird.

I went to Argentina two months ago and males over there greet each other with a kiss on the cheek. I felt weird doing that even though I have no problems with it and even though I had been warned that men greet with kisses. It's just an action that wasn't programmed in my body, I didn't feel weird after a few greetings.

dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 04:28 pm
@Heeven,
Don't even MENTION an open mouth greeting kiss!!!

If someone slobbers on me I hate it!!!

I have a couple of male friends who do that but luckily I rarely see them now.
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 04:56 pm
@Pantalones,
I follow this simple rule which has kept me out of trouble so far.

"Nice to meet you" = hand shake.
"Mucho Gusto" or "Encantada" = kiss on the cheek.

Eva
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 05:09 pm
I mentioned this thread to Hubby, and just yesterday he had an experience with a coworker of 25 years that surprised him. (And not in a good way.)

Both of them were about to try to go through a doorway at work at the same moment. Hubby put his hand on the back of the other guy's shoulder and waved him through with his other hand. The other guy grabbed his hand and threw it off, then said, "I don't like it when other guys touch me." Hubby was just trying to be courteous, but after that he felt like this guy had interpreted his simple gesture as a gay come-on. It made him so uncomfortable he avoided the guy for the rest of the day.

You see how convoluted this stuff gets?!
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 05:15 pm
@Eva,
Sigh.

It's ridiculous, really.

Although I advocate lots of sensitivity around this stuff, I think it's bloody wise to assume that people have benign intentions unless there is good reason not to, and to get over yourself unless you have good reason not to.

0 Replies
 
Heeven
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 05:21 pm
@dlowan,
I am definitely going to suck face with you if we ever meet!
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 05:26 pm
@Heeven,
Heeven wrote:

I am definitely going to suck face with you if we ever meet!


I'll nuke you.
Heeven
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 05:28 pm
@dlowan,
I think I'd quite like that!
0 Replies
 
 

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