Irish Language - Gaeilge

Just as a grin-maker:

Reasons the English Language is Hard to Learn

The bandage was wound around the wound.
The farm was used to produce produce.
The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
We must polish the Polish furniture.
He could lead if he would get the lead out.
The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
I did not object to the object.
The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
They were too close to the door to close it.
The buck does funny things when the does are present.
A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
After a number of injections my jaw got number.
Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

Well, I understand about the broad and slender consonants - Spanish has a very similar system, with g, gu, and c, and I already knew (sort of) about s/sh. But I just don't get this site - on the one page, they give a list of sounds that "d" can make, and on the next page they have d sounding like t, which wasn't listed on the other page at all, broad or slender or any of that.

do you mean http://www.contemporarypoetry.com/brain/lang/irish1.html#Pronunciation

There was a small discussion on the "d" in another Gaeilge forum site and we pretty much concurred that Neil McEwan has a dialectal difference in his d's. In lieu of tch, it more often is as the dge in judge....if that helps at all....

Maith thú Tóraí, bhí do theachtaireacht go hiontach. Caithfidh mé an ceann sin a ghearradh agus greamadh den leabhar nótaí. Cén fad atá tú ag foghlaim Gaeilge? Tá sé go han-mhaith.

Well done Tóraí, your post was excellent. I'll have to copy and paste that one for the notebook. How long have you been learning Irish? It's very good.

Rufio, sorry if the site I gave has a confusing phonetic guide. I'm studying via books and software which is great for learning the written language but it's true the conversational aspect suffers - a problem world wide for Irish language enthusiasts. I plan to stay in one of the Gaeltachts (Irish speaking regions) next year to address this shortfall..

Check to see if there are any Irish classes in your area, in one or two lessons a fluent speaker could explain the subtleties much better than months of online guides..

Go n-éirí an t-ádh libh (best of luck to you all)
Feicfidh mé arís sibh (I'll see you all again)
Asarlaí

Asarlaí,

I am glad you liked my humor. I forget where I came across that one originally. I've had it in a Word doc for a long while.

My learning has been sporadic for almost a year now. I, too, am using software as well as a book/tapes set for my learning. I've been away from it for a little while recently and have just started back, so I feel a bit rusty, even though I am still a mere "beginner".

I've learned that in the city where I work there is a bar that has impromptu as Gaeilge sessions, but they are infrequent and I don't like to be out alone after dark in that part of the city and have to drive home to my small town outside the city.

I do plan to check out the link that mikey posted for for Fordham Univ, though.

I understand what it says there, Tóraí - this is what I don't get (from Lesson 2):

tá siad they are (taw shi-at)

I see a slender s, which becomes sh, and a broad d, which should be d, not t. Or are there special rules for pronunciation of letters that come at the ends of words?

I see what saying there Rufio, I pronounce Tá siad (taw she-ud) the ud sound is short.. Saying that I can also see how a very short 'at' sound can work but the 't' would be more of a tut and decrease in volume rapidly -

Have a listen to the native speaker on the following site.
Click ná half way down the page -

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/gaeilge/lessons/lesson2.html

Hope this helps..

Slán
Asarlaí

Yes, I agree - I would also pronounce it as she-ud. My studies are using the Ulster dialect, but I am not at all certain that the showing of "at" in the lesson is not just a typographical error...perhaps he meant that he'd say it as "she-ad"...I have heard some other learners use that pronunciation.

I think you will be safe in sticking with a broad "d" sound as "d" in your studies.

Ahh, thanks guys. I'm just curious about one more thing - do the double letters mean anything? Are they pronounced twice, or do they alter the vowel sounds like in English? That lesson doesn't specify, but I see double n's everywhere.

double "n" typically won't change anything. A good example is sinn which is given in the lesson you're looking at as a variant form of for the english word "we", would be pronounced shin.

Sin, meaning that/those is also pronounced shin.

Interesting thread, thanks.

Slán go fóill.

Hey everyone; I agree, this is an interesting post. It reminds me of when I was younger; I went to Inis Meáin every year and stayed with ancient relatives who only spoke Irish... I looked forward to it every year and picked up passable fluency... then my great-grandmother died and there was a big bust-up over her inheritance, so I was never allowed to go again and my Irish deteriorated... it's a real shame, but I'm trying to pick it up again. What is worse is how English, the imposed language, has taken over, despite attempts to nurture it. It's a huge part of Irish identity, so poetic, and it pains me to see people losing it.

Oíche mhaith anois.

Hálo dròm_et_rêve, fbaezer agus gach aon duine eile (everyone else)

Go raibh míle maith agat for sharing your experiences dròm, you're absolutely right that the Irish language should be intrinsic to modern Irish society. The movement for this to happen is stronger now than it has been for a long time so I'm optimistic that with the right approach, the Irish language will thrive once more.. For starters - I would like to see Dublin and the other main cities have areas similar to 'Chinatown'.. A community of streets and shops/cafes dedicated to promoting the language - Tourists world wide love Celtic art and myths so would flock there and students and fluent speakers would have a solid platform to form an Irish language community, developing within the hustle and bustle of the 21st century..

I'm a few years yet away from a comfortable level of fluency but it's great fun learning anyway regardless of the bigger picture.

As Halloween is near, why not sent a greeting in Irish (as Gaeilge)

Oíche Shamhna Shona Duit/(Daoibh) = Happy Halloween to you/(you plural)

Ádh mór oraibh go léir (good luck to you all)
Slán go fóill
Asarlaí

So much to learn, so much help on the web
As is common, I suppose, with most folk who've never spoken a word of Irish in their life, a year ago I didn't know that "Irish" was anything more than a verbal accent. I could not have been more wrong! In my search for study aids, reliable web based information and translation assistance, I have had my linguistic eyes opened, so to speak!

While I classify myself as a learner, and am aware that I will most likely always be classified as such, I feel a grand sense of personal accomplishment at being able to put together a few simple sentences from Béarla to Gaeilge and sometimes the other way around. I've had no formal instruction, just the book/tape sets I've purchased and the assistance of some good people willing to give freely of their time to help with translations.

Admittedly, with my present abilities, I would most likely only be able to entertain a 5 year old with my conversational skills as Gaeilge - and only for about 5 minutes at that!, I know that as I continue my efforts, I will get better.

Remember when, as a child, you felt triumph at being able to recite the alphabet and count to 100? I can attest that you still feel something like that as an adult, when you master the same thing in a new language!

As a high school student I studied French for 3 years. I was able to begin to think as Fraincise (in French). Even today, tá beagán Fraincise agam ( I speak a little French) (very little but still it is some!). So I have hope that while tá mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge (I am learning Irish), I will eventually learn to think as Gaeilge (in Irish) as well.

There is much to learn and I am glad to see that there are many people interested in learning. I am glad to see that there are so many sites available to help.

Caithfidh mé imeacht, anois. Slán go fóill!
(I have to go now. 'Bye for now!)

Hi tóraí,

Tá áthas orm go bhfuil foghlaimeoir eile anseo.

I learnt Irish at school in Ireland so I have an advantage over most internet learners. How come you got into an Ghaeilge? Have you irish roots?

Hello An Gobadán,

I don't have Irish roots so much as an Irish heart. 'Twas my late husband with the Irish roots. My search for the ability to speak, read, write and think in Irish is one of the ways that I have chosen to honor the love we shared and his memory.

Each time that I've made progress, I take joy in that accomplishment. To have gone from single words to being able to construct a sentence that actually conveys the thought that I intended for it to convey, was a monumental day for me!

I've read many postings, articles, discussions and items on the internet and the most encouraging to me is the fact that there are so many people who are willing to take of their time and post pronunciation guides, brief lessons and the like, history stories - both factual and traditional lore, and discuss in a calm manner the culture of Ireland.

The most distressing to me was a forum I came across where the members were complaining about learning and speaking Irish, saying that it was useless, that they would never get anything out of it and that they could care less if the language of their own country should simply die off. Indeed, there are no doubt problems in the way that Irish is taught in some schools, but the apathy in that particular discussion was very striking.

Ah, but I am digressing.

I must do some household chores so that I actually have time to study, come the weekend.

Slán.

I am also Irish at heart, not by blood, and love the music. I learned a few Gaelic songs strictly by imitation, without really understanding the meaning behind the lyrics unless of course, I had a translation.

So Heeven, when you were in the Aran Islands, did you learn how to order a custom-designed sweater for emus? How would one order that in Gaelic....enquiring minds need to know.

Emu-sized Aran jumper :

Buy size XL

Drop in the bog and swish around for cupla noimead

Yank the bugger outta the bog

Drag it home behind me, stopping off at the pub for a quick one

By the time it dries to a cracked dusky brown, it's misshapen enough to fit even my feathery body!