Feral Cat Situation: Legal/ Ethical Options

Well, I'm late to reply here...
What I would do, Soz, is place a trap with nice stinky fish as close as you can to her property line (obviously requiring the cooperation of one of her next-door neighbors). Spay/neuter that cat, return it, then keep trying for more of 'em.

I'm not sure how much good talking will do, but frankly it won't hurt.

And maybe bring over a laptop and show her that video of the Russian lady with 130 cats in her apartment?

Oh, there it is... THIS video:

Jesus wept!!!

They actually look pretty healthy and happy, those cats!!!

I was at my crazy little neighborhood discount store the other day and noticed a frail, elderly woman heaving giant bags of cat food into her cart so I offered to help her.....

She said she could manage the bags but she wished she could find help dealing with the strays that had taken over her life.

I offered her the information I knew about strays but I doubt she'll do anything about it.

I think that caring for something can give us a purpose.... a reason to get up in the morning.

I think a lot of people, especially the elderly, are desperately lonely.

I think that can be true for sure, and before things started getting prickly we were happy that we had this avenue to social interaction with CN. I definitely want to emphasize that to her, and also that we'd like to keep interacting with her after the cat problem is resolved.

But the cat problem is a definite problem. You know? I don't feel comfortable just saying that she's old and needs this and letting the colony swell to 40+. If she wants to keep the (spayed + neutered) seven as outdoor cats, that'd be an OK compromise.

The bottom line is simple, we have upset the balance of nature to such an egregious extent that the entire animal and plant world is at serious risk.

There is an insane number of near-extinct species, and an irresponsible number of now-extinct species, all due to our unrealistic ethical idealizations.

This has come about not simply by applying our unrealistic ethical idealizations towards the few animals we favor as pets, but by our pollution, our consumption and our overpopulation.

Cats are not an endangered species. Cats are (through our unrealistic ethical idealizations) an environmental scourge and as such the general cat population must be culled immediately.

I assure you that if we do not take such matters into our own hands to cull cats, dogs, ourselves and the few other animals we favor to such an extreme, we will shortly not have a sustainable Earth.

Our ethical idealizations towards the few animals we favor (and for that matter our own excess population) pales in comparison to the destruction of the planet's ability to support life properly.

Object all you want, but in a few hundred years when the world has become much more of a barren polluted sewer hole, such actions as trying to save cats (or condoning and celebrating childbirth for that matter) will be looked upon as insanely short-sighted.

neuter the cats

A species will procreate IN MASS as long as you provide the environment. Do not create an artifitial environment with your sentimentality. It is not fair to the cat. The animal is not here for your sentimentality.

Like cooking a duck, first you gotta get a duck. Here, you have to catch the cats. Then you have to pay for the procedure x the number of cats.

Lets just start eating cats.

First, you have to catch them.

Might be another three cats (a neighbor counted 10 cats lounging on her own porch).

Not going well with CN. I had shared ehBeth's idea with NN, and NN sent an email that was meant to utilize that idea but she didn't quite pull it off IMO. For one thing I think it would've been better in person, with lots of tonal stuff and give-and-take. It came across a little accusatory -- not enough "working together" stuff in it I don't think. (It's a very hard thing to pull off though, I'm not sure I could've done better, especially in person.)

So CN and CND are both mad now, again. CND called NN after the email was sent, quite upset. Poor NN burst into tears during the call, which wasn't planned but may have helped convey how frustrated we are and how we want to HELP and we realize it's a big thing for one or two people to do. CN's cancer is in fact back and we understand both how hard that must be for them and how it must make it more difficult than ever to deal with the cats on top of everything else. CND's stance, however, is still "we'll take care of it." (The kitty issue.)

More and more neighbors are noticing and getting upset by the catpack, once we've paused for a bit (like a week) I think we're going to just try to catch them on our own property and go from there. (People are trying and keep getting raccoons so far, so I'm not sure how well that will go. Maybe electric blankets to offer warmth when it's still cold out. They like to camp out on the cover of one annoyed neighbors' hot tub...)

One thing is that I think NN is burned out -- I haven't wanted to step on her toes and I haven't wanted to pile on (made more sense to have one contact person) but if I take over her role I can try a little good cop bad cop maybe... dunno. Definitely a situation where lack of hearing is an issue and dunno if I can do it all through email. Probably not.

Question for patiodog:

We successfully caught a cat and brought her to the vet. I went to pick up the cat yesterday. There I found out that she is a she and that she is pregnant. ARGH.

My question is this -- the paperwork they gave me indicated that she was spayed, with the specifics being "ovariohysterectomy" (maybe not spelled right but something very close to that). Hysterectomy = removal of the uterus, right? How can a cat be both pregnant and have had a hysterectomy? Or does that mean that when they removed the uterus they found cat fetuses in it? (I definitely didn't catch everything they were saying, had two girls and a distressed cat to look after and was due back at the house of the person who was watching the cat for 24 hrs).

We can call on Monday and ask, so if you're busy we can wait 'til then, just curious.

Cat was pregnant. Cat is no longer pregnant. Ovaries were removed together with uterus and contents thereof. Fetuses that are well-developed/viable typically are euthanized individually. At this time of year in Ohio, though, I'd guess thge odds are fairly low that the pregnancy was very far along, though we do see a few outdoor/barn cats up here who don't seem to shut down shop for the winter.

Take the fact that the cat was pregnant as a warning, though: most or all of the other females probably are knocked up as well.

(Yes, I am an animal abortionist.)

Thanks patiodog.


The form said first trimester.

I asked the kid if she'd heard anything and she said that the vet said something along the lines of yep, pregnant, nothing we can do, sorry, she's gonna have babies... We'll find out conclusively on Monday I guess.

Do they ever just tie tubes? (Kid may well have misheard or be engaging in wishful thinking -- while she knows there are too many cats she's generally pro-kitten.)

The other thing is that the form indicated that she is pregnant, present tense, with some instructions of what to do because of that (wish I still had the form, it's been passed on).

The good news is that the person lined up to the adopt the cat went ahead and adopted it even with the possibility of kittens.

All I know for sure -- both the "spay" box and the "pregnant" box were checked, as well as the "first trimester" box.

As for the other ones being knocked up, yeah. My friend said hopefully "maybe they're all males!" but I pointed out that there are a few calicos and calicos are always female (right?) We're redoubling attempts to capture, really not going very well so far. But we're going to keep trying.

That doesn't make sense to me, soz. Nobody ties tubes -- if you leave the ovaries in, you still have cat going into heat with all the risks and difficulties of ownership that that entails. Some folks just do an ovariectomy rather than an ovariohysterectomy (more common in Europe than U.S.), but that's not what the form said. To me, the form would mean that at the time of spay she was found to have an early pregnancy.

Unless they left her intact, but that would be pretty damned silly.

Best to call the office and clarify.

Yeah, that makes more sense.

We'll be calling on Monday, they're closed over the weekend.

Thanks again.

OK, confirmation, NOT pregnant. (Anymore.)

And we've caught another too.

If we can catch 'em all before there is a new crop of babies I'll be so happy.

5-8 to go, though. (Not sure if there are 7 or 10 cats, total.) (And yes, the thought of missing just two and those two going crazy with the kittens freaks me out, but one step at a time...)

You do what you can.






Who's currently underwriting this venture, anyway?

All of us.

About... 10? people are involved in some way. Some just contribute money ($25/ cat), some do driving duty, some do after-surgery watching, some do catching, some do more than one of those. Definitely the upside, getting to know neighbors I didn't know before. Plan to have a big party when the last cat is caught (yeah, "so never then?" you say, we might say uncle at some point, will do as much as we can first).

I love it. I had never really lived in a neighborhood, as such, before, until we lived in Venice. I still have friends from all that.. (the guy from Boston who was keen on the town green meetings, who sends me long letters re his trips to Brazil, and in whose house I was staying - after we had left - on the morning of 9/11). I know neighborhoods can go berserko in a bad way, but this situation seems to be carefully handled, I'm sure in some part due to you, Sozz.

Kitty capcha.