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Tue 2 Feb, 2010 08:06 am
OK, this is going to be one of those where it's either 1,000 words long or I leave out some details that will probably prove pertinent later -- so go ahead and ask questions and I'll fill things in as we go.
Basic outline:
Last summer, a stray cat chose a spot under a neighbor's porch to have three kittens. (That neighbor will be "CN" from now on [cat neighbor].) The mom cat probably had an owner at some point and is friendly. The kittens are completely feral/ unsocialized. I tried hard to find homes for them when they were small but without any luck.
CN has been responsible in a general way for all four cats (the mom and three kittens), providing food, water, and a shelter on her porch (someone built a "cat condo" for her, basically a wooden box). She has gotten significant help from neighbors on this (not just the condo but people bringing food, etc.)
About a month ago (?), three more kittens appeared in CN's yard. Definitely part of that group of cats but we don't know who the parents are (if the original mom had three more babies, if one of the kittens -- now about 8 months old -- had this litter, etc.)
CN is elderly and recovering from cancer and so several of us neighbors, led by NN (next-door neighbor), offered to help solve the cat problem. Back when there were just three kittens she (NN) and I did a thorough round of research, calls, emails etc. and determined that if we took the cats to any shelter in the area, the cats would be killed. (Every shelter is already overrun and unsocialized feral cats are very hard to place.) NN found a program to spay + neuter the cats for a good price, though, so we all (NN, me, CN, and other neighbors who had gotten involved) decided that would be a good idea. We had to wait until the cats were a certain weight, then missed our chance and boom, more kittens.
So once we saw the new kittens we redoubled our efforts to spay + neuter everyone and find homes ASAP, no more waiting around.
The good news -- the prep for this went very well. It's a big logistical challenge, finding people who could watch the cats for 24 hrs after surgery, people to help catch the cats, people to transport the cats, people to help with financials, and especially people to take the cats at the end of the whole thing. All taken care of. Woo, go us, let's catch some kitties.
That's where things get weird.
NN went ahead and *successfully* caught several of the kittens by getting them in the condo and closing off their door. She did that very early in the morning and then went back with kitty-transporters a couple of hours later. At that point, the kittens were out.
Trying to make a long story shorter, she thinks that CN let them out. She also has a) stopped getting cooperation from CN and b) has been told by CN's daughter (CND) to stop trying to catch the cats.
These are outdoor cats, and they're multiplying. As neighbors, we don't want a horde of outdoor cats over there. (And of course they don't just stay there, they now wander around catching birds and such.) As cat-lovers, we don't want to kill them. We have this whole thing set up except for actually catching the cats, who are on private property (CN's porch). Any advice as to where we should go from here?
(Damn, that's right around 1,000 words after all isn't it? Hard to summarize.)
@sozobe,
Listening, but no useful advice.
My mother and I went through this too.
Almost WORD for word
What we had to do was borrow/rent a cat trap from the animal shelter to catch the cats.
At night we would put it out with some tuna or other fragrant food. In the morning we had a cat..
We took it in, got it fixed, kept it in the house for about 3 days, then let it go.
The lady across the street was not ANGRY about having them fixed . But she was upset after changing her mind to help us because she thought we were going to secretly just take them.
She never did interrupt the fixing, but I KNEW she was watching those cats and making sure no one was missing.
It took 2 months. We were lucky, no extra litters.
But with the cage on our property, there was no legal question to answer about whos cat it was. Technically, the cat was tresspassing
And since we were not going after HER for monies to take care of the cats, we were not stealing, not abducting and not breaking a single law.
@shewolfnm,
Various people have tried catching them on their own property -- before we got coordinated and before they knew where the cats' homebase was -- without luck. (These cats are evidently wilier than
raccoons, 'cause raccoons are what people keep catching when they try to catch cats.)
Plus, we do want to find homes for them, and have homes set up for almost all. CN has a relationship with one of the first litter of kittens and seems to want to keep that one, that's awesome, we're all for it.
If we can only spay and neuter them that's better than nothing though. I guess we can step up the attempts to catch them off her property. We also don't really want to antagonize her though because she's a neighbor and everything. But I guess it's already too late for that. (I haven't spoken to her directly in a while now, just got an email from NN this morning with the latest, I don't have a good feel for the details of where things went south. CN was enthusiastic about this whole project until very recently.)
@sozobe,
I'm trying to get this clear. CN initially participated in the spay/neuter/find homes plan, but now is not cooperating? So the cats are under her porch (& probably multiplying) & you're trying to figure out what you can do about the situation without her cooperation? I hope I've got that right.
I'm wondering: has she spoken to any of you about the reason for her change of heart? Is she willing to even talk about the situation with you? It's very messy if she won't allow you to catch them on her property.
@msolga,
Hi msolga,
The first litter of cats were born under CN's porch. They hung around her yard being cute, and as the weather got colder, a neighbor made a wooden "kitty condo" for the cats that sits on CN's porch now (not under). The cats sleep there at night and hang out there a lot. (It's very cold here, below freezing.) It's a perfect way to catch them -- since they are comfortable in it and gather in it regularly -- but is on private property, correct.
NN doesn't understand why she's getting the brush-off now. She has no idea. She seems to be a pretty emotionally intelligent person -- it's possible she's missing something though.
We do know that CN's cancer might be back and that they are focusing on that, which we understand. We don't require anything from them but permission to go on her porch to catch the cats, though.
@sozobe,
I'm wondering if CN thinks the cats might be destroyed if captured. (As homes for them sound pretty hard to find)
It's messy, isn't it?
@msolga,
We've been really clear with her and her daughter that we've found homes for them, and that the ones who don't have homes will just go back to her porch. If it was just her (CN) I'd worry about some sort of dementia/ confusion, but CND (the daughter) has actually been the main problem (she handles most of the communication).
@sozobe,
I know you're saying she could be very ill, but there seems no way around talking with her & getting her permission. If that's at all possible.
If not, maybe try talking with the daughter. (I can't recall if you mentioned the age of the daughter.)
Actually, it might be best to request a meeting with both of them together.
You can't allow those cats to keep multiplying & it would be terrible to have to resort to the local authorities to resolve the issue.
Messy, messy, messy!
@msolga,
The daughter is maybe mid-40's.
There have been meetings with the daughter, CN, and NN.
I'll go ahead and quote NN to give a better idea of where things stand:
NN wrote:[other neighbor], did you see one of the very smallest kittens? None of the rest of us have seen that group in a while. Over the weekend, I pointblank asked [CND] about the status of all the kittens and she totally ignored me on that too. She then asked for information about potential homes; I sent it, hoping that would get things moving again. All she responded with was "Thanks for the information" ... Again, I have no idea on how to jumpstart things with her ...
@sozobe,
Yikes, soz, I'm as bewildered as you are!
I think (if I was in your situation) I'd request one last meeting & go over all the details one more time (yes, I know!
) .... then, if they're still uncooperative, let them know that you're left with no choice but to take things further, with your local authorities. But it would be really unpleasant if it actually came to that!
I'm not sure if you mentioned it earlier, but who will be paying the costs of the neutering, etc.? I'm wondering if they might not be able to pay their share? But I think I'm grasping at straws here.
How odd!
It sounds like she wants to keep the cats around.
See if your city has a "feral cat coallition" like my city does....
Quote:The Feral Cat Coalition of Oregon is a trap-neuter-return (TNR) program for feral and stray cats living in Oregon. The goal of the program is to reduce suffering for existing feral cats and prevent the births and suffering of future generations. The program's services are targeted for feral cats who have caregivers feeding them. The caregivers trap the cats, bring them to a clinic, and return the cats to where they are being fed with a commitment to feed the cat(s) on a permanent basis.
FCCO's 24-foot mobile hospital, designed specifically for spaying/neutering feral cats, has three separate rooms: a surgery suite with room for three veterinarians to operate simultaneously; a prep area, complete with sink and autoclave; and also an anesthesia room. In addition to being spayed or neutered, each cat who participates in the program receives FVRCP (distemper) and rabies vaccines, is flea combed and sprayed, treated for ear mites and other minor medical conditions and has his or her right ear tipped for future identification. Cats that appear to be suffering, as determined by a veterinarian, are tested for feline leukemia (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV): all positives are euthanized.
FCCO also has a free-standing spay/neuter clinic in Portland in addition to our ongoing mobile program. The surgery suite has four surgery tables allowing us to have an additional doctor performing spays thereby increasing our efficiency. This is an exciting step for our organization and the feral cats who need our services. The demand for our compassionate services outstrips our capacity in all the cities we serve.
@boomerang,
Never heard of such a thing as a "feral cat coalition" before, boomerang. Interesting.
@boomerang,
Yes, that's what we have lined up.
Quote:The caregivers trap the cats, bring them to a clinic, and return the cats to where they are being fed with a commitment to feed the cat(s) on a permanent basis.
That's where we are. We are all set to trap them, bring them to the clinic, watch them for 24 hours, then return them either to CN's porch or to new homes. But the best way to catch them is in the kitty condo on CN's porch, and CN isn't co-operating.
We can try asking if she wants all seven of them around, and if the answer is yes, promise to bring them all back rather than placing some of them. Better that than letting the current ones keep having kittens.
Msolga, we're paying for everything. CN doesn't have to do anything at all -- time, effort, or money-wise -- except give us permission.
@sozobe,
Quote:
Msolga, we're paying for everything. CN doesn't have to do anything at all -- time, effort, or money-wise -- except give us permission.
Sounds like there's no option but to attempt to talk to them again, then. If it's still no go, looks like you might have no choice but to "go legal", as a last resort.
This would definitely fall under potential antagonism, but is there any way to use the condition of the animals and animal control as leverage? I don't know what your local laws, but in many communities any cats-at-large can be picked up as strays. If CND is offered the alternatives of "let us spay/neuter" vs. "we'll call animal control if we see the cats off of the property," some headway might be made.
It's a drag of a situation, but there might be 40 cats on the property by the end of this summer.
@sozobe,
I must go to bed now. Just saying goodnight & I hope you resolve this, soz. I'm glad to see patiodog has arrived!
Keep us posted. I'll be interested to see what happens.
My guess is that she enjoys the cats, likes having something to take care of, and likes having the companionship of neighbors pitching in/visiting/etc.
I don't think this is uncommon in people who are elderly or ill.
Offer to have the cats spayed and returned to her house and see if that doesn't make a difference in her attitude.
@boomerang,
Right, that's what I said here:
sozobe wrote:We can try asking if she wants all seven of them around, and if the answer is yes, promise to bring them all back rather than placing some of them. Better that than letting the current ones keep having kittens.
I think that's the best next step at this point... hope that works (even though I'd far rather have no feral cats around, have her keep the one she's close to, and we'll keep visiting her/ saying hi....)
@patiodog,
Good to see you here patiodog, thanks for weighing in. Yeah, I think that's the next-next step, or maybe a few steps down the line, but I REALLY don't want 40 cats over there and I don't think anyone else does either.
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