Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 06:51 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Yeah, Boss, that was the point . . .

I do feel kinda bad for Mr. Loudmouth, though--no one seems to want to play his silly game with him . . .

But what do you call this? Your lack of perception of reality really amuses me, Set. Don't feel bad.
PS: I see you have recruited a stooge...I guess you have come up with better comical materials this time...carry on!
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 07:11 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
This is a ridiculous question.

Is it? Why don't you answer it then? If it is ridiculous, it should be easy...no?


Quote:
Even someone who has been a confirmed aetheist for 50 years is going to follow God's instructions if he is as absolutely sure God is speaking to him as you posit.

How are you so sure about this? How would you kill someone in the name of God if you don't believe in Him? People kill int he name of God because their action are justified by scripture...let's take Jainism, for example...if Jainism is the true religion that promotes peace, how would a Jain kill in the name of his religion, if their dogma is based on nonviolence?

Quote:
Whether one is blessed or crazy, if one is sure God is giving the instructions, one will follow them.

We know (at least experts know) how the mind works.
If you know anything about schizophrenia, you also would know that people who suffer from schizophrenia mistake their dreams with reality... they're in a dream state...they behave as they would in reality...if I heard a voice commanding me to kill a relative of mine (and this voice claims to be God), I would respond with "go **** yourself." It's very simple.
Quote:

If you want to engage believers in a meaningful debate you'll have to do better than this thread.

It has been done before...I already asked the question to some Christians, and they couldn't give me a straight answer...their response were like "those things don't apply anymore" or "God doesn't agree with that"...avoiding the question altogether.
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 07:23 pm
@Green Witch,
Quote:
Here Jason, why don't go debate this guy. No one on this thread is much of a god follower.

He looks deeply indoctrinated.... I have already spotted some straw men in his argument...I will address each one of the later...Thanks, GW.
0 Replies
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 07:25 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
It always strikes me as significant that Abraham was just such an idiot, and was revered as a "Father of his People", and significantly the Muslims too.

An idiot and a bigot, too...and many other attributes.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 10:28 pm
@Jason Proudmoore,
It's ridiculous, not ridiculously easy, and I answered it:

Anyone, including myself, who believes without a doubt that God has instructed him to do anything, will do it.

It's hard to take you serious.

First you posit that the hypothetical person believes, without doubt, that he has been instructed by God to kill someone, and then you ask "How would you kill someone in the name of God if you don't believe in Him?"

Well, clearly if the person believes, without a doubt, that God has spoken to him, then he believes in God, irrespective of his prior 50 years of disbelief.

Again, it doesn't matter whether or not the person is crazy or sane and blessed, if he believes without a doubt that God has instructed him to do something, he will do it.

You're trying to tell us that if you were crazy and believed without a doubt that God told you to kill someone, you would tell God "Go **** yourself."

Perhaps a crazy person might do so, but not as a result of a rational consideration of the matter - which is what you want to contend.

First of all, crazy people cannot rationally consider anything, and secondly the response "Go **** yourself God," is entirely irrational if you believe without a doubt that God is speaking to you.

In your simplistic view of the topic you somehow think that telling God to **** himself is heroic.

If you truly don't believe in God, then it is idiotic to tell "God" to **** himself.

Your argument is stupid and doesn't even rise to the child-like argument that there can be no God because humans suffer.

I'm sure you consider yourself a champion of rational thought, but you are far from it.

The only believers you are likely to draw into your flimsy web are bound to be simpletons and as much as I'm sure you would like to believe that all believers are simpletons, a relatively intelligent 10 year old believer can shoot down your argument in about 10 seconds.

There is nothing ridiculous about your atheism. The existence of God cannot be proven and so the position that he doesn't exist is not unreasonable.

For some reason, however, you seem to want to to express your atheistic belief in a belligerant manner. Arm-chair psychology would suggest that you are not so firm is your atheism as you would like us to believe.



Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 11:18 pm
@Jason Proudmoore,
The only stooge around here is you . . . assure yourself that the individual to whom you refer is no stooge.

And Finn is the only one here i see playing your idiot-child game, and he's only playing to the extent of pointing out to you just how idiotic it is.

So, in answer to the question of how this is working out for you, the self-evident answer is, not at all.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 12:54 am
@Jason Proudmoore,
Quote:
You hear a voice that commands you to kill a member of your family in the name of the Lord, your God. You feel it deep in you that it is true, that the lord has utterly revealed Himself to you. There isn't a doubt in your heart. You feel that it couldn't possibly be the Devil putting a "trick" on you, because you've been God's devout believer for decades.


I'd hope things didn't get anywhere near that far, despite the command being so utterly convincing!

I'd hope that someone with a cool head would rush me off the the nearest clinic for emergency treatment!
Sglass
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 01:11 am
@Jason Proudmoore,
Are you hearing little voices Jason? Does this guy have any credibility?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 01:12 am
@Sglass,
Are you really sure you want to know, Sglass? Wink
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 04:51 am
@Jason Proudmoore,
God is dead. I killed him. Yahweh is the **** of a Pagan that moves on and leaves you sniffing.
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 06:27 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
It's ridiculous, not ridiculously easy, and I answered it:

If it is ridiculous, it is preposterous...which is easy to refute...and I asked you if you would kill for your god, which you have clearly answered on this post.

Quote:
Anyone, including myself, who believes without a doubt that God has instructed him to do anything, will do it.

And there lies your morality.

Quote:
First you posit that the hypothetical person believes, without doubt, that he has been instructed by God to kill someone, and then you ask "How would you kill someone in the name of God if you don't believe in Him?"

Yes, I asked that...and I also told you about how schizophrenia affects the mind...didn't I?

Quote:
Well, clearly if the person believes, without a doubt, that God has spoken to him, then he believes in God, irrespective of his prior 50 years of disbelief.

Not if you're an skeptic/atheist who also know that mental diseases exist that can cause you to hear things and hallucinate, and also suffer from this mental disease.

Quote:
Again, it doesn't matter whether or not the person is crazy or sane and blessed, if he believes without a doubt that God has instructed him to do something, he will do it.

If you are a moral person, you would not kill for anybody...that includes killing for your god.


Quote:
You're trying to tell us that if you were crazy and believed without a doubt that God told you to kill someone, you would tell God "Go **** yourself."

I'm not trying to tell you...I told you.

Quote:
Perhaps a crazy person might do so, but not as a result of a rational consideration of the matter - which is what you want to contend.

Yes, a crazy person whose moral depends on a book written by bronze age ignorant savages, would kill in his/her God's name.


Quote:
First of all, crazy people cannot rationally consider anything,

I have known certain individuals who are affected with schizophrenia and can live their lives normally...from time to time they hear voices, but they are quite aware of their condition...

Quote:
and secondly the response "Go **** yourself God," is entirely irrational if you believe without a doubt that God is speaking to you.

And you know nothing about this argument, much less about mental disorders. You could be a nonbeliever and hear the voice of Bastet instructing you on how to love your cat as yourself.

Quote:
In your simplistic view of the topic you somehow think that telling God to **** himself is heroic.

It is not just heroic...it is moral.

Quote:
Your argument is stupid and doesn't even rise to the child-like argument that there can be no God because humans suffer.

WTF?! If you want to establish a different argument to discuss, I suggest you start a thread that would address this topic....and stay focused!


Quote:
The only believers you are likely to draw into your flimsy web are bound to be simpletons

I couldn't have said it any better!

Quote:
and as much as I'm sure you would like to believe that all believers are simpletons, a relatively intelligent 10 year old believer can shoot down your argument in about 10 seconds.


I think I'm getting the best out of you...


Quote:
There is nothing ridiculous about your atheism. The existence of God cannot be proven and so the position that he doesn't exist is not unreasonable.

What does this have to do with the argument of this thread...? focus!

Quote:
For some reason, however, you seem to want to to express your atheistic belief in a belligerant manner.

Are you having a psychotic moment, Finn? FYI....We can have a peaceful discussion anytime you want..but if you want to be belligerent, I will give you "belligerent". But, I haven't done it yet...I'm actually going easy on you...because I think you're a moral person deep inside...you just want to be different...like your pal Setanta (whose religious stance still in question).

Quote:
Arm-chair psychology would suggest that you are not so firm is your atheism as you would like us to believe.

We also know that psychology is not your area of expertise...if it were, this post would not contain anything that it does, which is nonsense. Twisted Evil

0 Replies
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 06:37 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
The only stooge around here is you.

I can't possible be a stooge...I work solo.

Quote:
assure yourself that the individual to whom you refer is no stooge.

Whether Finn is a stooge or not still in question...the same way as your atheism.

Quote:
And Finn is the only one here i see playing your idiot-child game, and he's only playing to the extent of pointing out to you just how idiotic it is.

Schizophrenia can make you hallucinate...and also certain kinds of herbs as well...which one is the cause of your delusion, Set?

Quote:
So, in answer to the question of how this is working out for you, the self-evident answer is, not at all.

You are wrong again, Set...how can an person be so wrong so many times?...I'm having a blast with you and Finn...keep them coming! Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 06:39 am
@msolga,
Quote:
I'd hope things didn't get anywhere near that far, despite the command being so utterly convincing!

We can say that it has been too late for certain people.

Quote:
I'd hope that someone with a cool head would rush me off the the nearest clinic for emergency treatment!

That would be the right thing to do...
0 Replies
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 06:45 am
@Sglass,
Quote:
Are you hearing little voices Jason?

I'm just hearing static...pretty much what I hear after I read any of setanta's twisted comments.

Quote:
Does this guy have any credibility?

Who? Setanta or Finn? Since they both have the same inclination toward religion, I would venture to say that neither of them have any credibility.
0 Replies
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 06:47 am
@Amigo,
Quote:
God is dead. I killed him. Yahweh is the **** of a Pagan that moves on and leaves you sniffing.

Go to Joe Nation to collect your bounty.
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 06:56 am
@Jason Proudmoore,
no bounty to be had brother and No quarter
0 Replies
 
 

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