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Questions for those of faith

 
 
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 01:48 am
To those who remain faithful to their religion, I must ask you why you have faith and how have you achieved it? Is there anything that would change your opinions on reality?
 
2622572
 
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Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 09:03 am
@MoralPhilosopher23,
Troll?
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Holden McGroin
 
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Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 10:04 am
@MoralPhilosopher23,
Being faithful to a religion and having faith in God are two different things. I was raised a Christian. I read and studied the Bible "religiously" which lead to many questions about what and where God is. I was taught the traditional view of God as an ethereal spirit being in an ethereal place called heaven and accepted it for many years. I was a staunch Bible advocate but was also a supporter of relationship over religion. However, over the last several years my view of God has changed in favor of the "Ancient Astronaut" theory. When considered together with scripture it began to answer my questions. I still believe God/Christ exists but the reality of what and where God is have changed. The old testament prophets, such as Ezeikel, explained reality in terms they and others of their time understood based on the knowlege possessed at the time. Our physical knowledge of the cosmos and technology has developed and increased to a point we can have fuller understanding of what Ezeikel saw in his visions and tried to explain.
The challenge of accepting new ideas based on new data is a daunting one. I believe we humans feel compelled to cling to old thought patterns and beaviors rather than accept new truth. I retain my faith in God and so far my old beliefs and new ones do not preclude each other but have come together in a fuller richer way.
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TimeTravel
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 10:20 am
@MoralPhilosopher23,
I have faith God punishes trolls immediately. As he is all powerful, you may ger bloody stools tomorrow, or your next lover might have crabs. If you commit adultery you might get aids like those 50 million Agnostics just got before mold and fungus grew in their sinus canals. You ask a lot of questions. I am only speaking to you because I am a mental health counselor, and quite frankly, you need help. The first answer to your first question, forgiving you first for your sarcasm and condescending acrid tone, is to say people of faith in the United States live an average of 7 years longer than all atheists and agnostics ... and those acidic deists who express a self proclaimed virtue of intelligence ( which is actually just pure agnosticism ). Living 7 years longer, I repeat myself in the event you are a downs baby. I achieve my faith by being Christ like ( similar to Buddha with a 500 year difference ); I do volunteer work helping people; I teach swimming lessons to people who might really need to drown; I avoid crack cocaine ... how about YOU? Of course I might change my mind, for example, if I tried some of those cheap drugs.
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jcboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 10:40 am
@MoralPhilosopher23,
Welcome to the forum! I’m Jewish, however not practicing.

Don’t hesitate to use the ignore feature for some of the trolls that pop up every now and then.
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Frank Apisa
 
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Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 04:35 pm
@MoralPhilosopher23,
Good question. I am not a person "of faith" so I cannot answer it, but I can acknowledge that I find the question interesting.

Too bad there are so many people anxious to come into a thread like this to spew their nonsense. Just ignore them...and hope some "people of faith" will come along to actually wrestle with the question.
MoralPhilosopher23
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 08:04 am
@Frank Apisa,
Although I may not be a person of faith, it truly is an interesting question and I am glad that you acknowledged that. You have to wonder how people remain faithful in this world of destruction and violence. It seems, to me, that you have to ignore a-lot of what is going on to remain faithful, but I am unsure. This is the reason why I ask the question, but no faithful really reply.
rosborne979
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 08:09 am
@MoralPhilosopher23,
MoralPhilosopher23 wrote:

Although I may not be a person of faith, it truly is an interesting question and I am glad that you acknowledged that. You have to wonder how people remain faithful in this world of destruction and violence. It seems, to me, that you have to ignore a-lot of what is going on to remain faithful, but I am unsure. This is the reason why I ask the question, but no faithful really reply.

You need a user named "Mismi" to reply to this. Her thoughts on this type of question are usually measured and intelligent. And I think she speaks from the perspective of having "Faith".
Cyracuz
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 08:36 am
@MoralPhilosopher23,
I am a 'person of faith'. But I discarded my religion long ago. Maybe that's why faith is still valuable to me.
MoralPhilosopher23
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 09:25 am
@rosborne979,
I hope to hear from her and thanks for the notice. It would be interesting to hear an intelligent defense for faith.
Cyracuz
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 10:09 am
@MoralPhilosopher23,
Faith is a basic human capacity. We use it to relate to unknowable things.
Some rely on faith where it is foolish to do so, and demand to be taken seriously. They mistake their beliefs for faith, and feel stepped on when someone questions their beliefs, taking it as a challenge to their faith. It's not. It's a challenge to their intelligence.
But in general people understand the difference, and rely on faith when they have to and fact when it is available.
Using faith to deny verifiable fact is the equivalent of using one foot to kick the other.

In answer to the original question of the thread, I think those who are faithful to their religions have either stopped asking questions, or they have stopped taking the beliefs they were taught literally. But this is a matter of belief. There is a choice, conscious or subconscious, to place one's faith in any belief. Faith is the reason religion exists. It is the reason science exists too. Many detest the word 'faith' because of it's connection to 'belief' and belief systems, but it is faith in the scientific method that makes it successful. We might call it 'having confidence in', but it is a variation of faith. We do not know.
JLNobody
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 01:34 pm
@Cyracuz,
A great statement and beautifully articulated. I like to distinguish between faith and belief as follows: To me beliefs are essential for human life; even Science rests on a large set of presuppositions about "reality", "truth", "knowing", etc. These cognitive assumptions cannot be supported by means of the "scientific method." They are tacit beliefs serving as the metaphysical foundation of science.
But when I say I am an atheistic 'man of faith' I am not referring to beliefs so much as I am referring to my basic ATTITUDE toward life and existence. Like many of the atheists participating in A2K, I do not need theological beliefs--even Buddhist beliefs--because of a level of confidence that the universe and my nature as an aspect of it are as they should be. Ultimately everything is O.K. I call this attitude (more emotional than cognitive) my FAITH.
Frank Apisa
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 01:41 pm
@JLNobody,
As most of you know, it is my opinion:

In the context of religion or philosophy...the term "belief" is little more than a guess...perhaps it can be elevated to an estimate or a supposition.

Faith is simply insisting that the belief is correct, despite the fact that that it is little more than a guess or an estimate or a supposition.

The beliefs: I believe a GOD exists or I believe there are no gods...are guesses about an unknown.

Faith, in either of those two guesses, is really just "insistence"...often to the point of absurdity.
JLNobody
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 03:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Yes, guesses, intuitions or hypotheses. But we must remember that there are intelligent and well-informed guesses and just plain dumb or wild guesses.
Frank Apisa
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 04:05 pm
@JLNobody,
Quote:
Yes, guesses, intuitions or hypotheses. But we must remember that there are intelligent and well-informed guesses and just plain dumb or wild guesses.


Absolutely.

And in my opinion, most guesses about the true nature of the REALITY of existence...are pure wild guesses.
Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 04:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
...is that a guess to Frank ?
Frank Apisa
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 04:54 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
...is that a guess to Frank ?


Not sure of what you meant with "to Frank", but if you are asking if my comment “And in my opinion, most guesses about the true nature of the REALITY of existence...are pure wild guesses.”…is a guess, well, it is a guess in the form of an opinion.

I most certainly do not KNOW for a fact that “most guesses about the true nature of the REALITY of existence” are pure wild guesses.

I’d certainly be willing to put it to a test.

Name three guesses you have about the true nature of the REALITY of existence…and let’s see if we can determine if they are blind guesses or not. (We may never reach agreement on whether or not they are blind guesses. Most people think their guesses are intelligent, well-considered guesses. Atheists, for instance, think their guesses are very well thought out...and not wild guesses at all. Theists also tend to think their guesses are very well conceived...and not wild guesses at all.

To me...any guess that there are gods or are no gods...are wild, blind guesses.

Anyway, we can try. We can do that with as many people as are willing to participate…and maybe we can get a handle on how often guesses about REALITY are blind or wild guesses.
Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 05:08 pm
@Frank Apisa,
That one is actually quite easy Frank:

1- Reality is what is the case.

2 - Our (subjective) experience is a real (objective) experience. (it is happening)

3 - Experiences compose a world.

Now you can disagree all you want...
Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 05:19 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Note that I didn't assert we are in control of our experiences nor did I claim they report knowledge upon things in themselves...yet they report objective relations producing subjective experiences...
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spendius
 
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Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 05:19 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
More than once I have thought that I was a bit ashamed of seducing a lady so easily only to find later that the reality was that I had been cynically exploited and used for purposes I had never even thought of.
 

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