What would you serve in your AMERICAN Restaurant

@Setanta,

According to The Fortune Cookie Chronicles: Adventures in the World of Chinese Food by Jennifer Lee, practically all Chinese restaurant food was invented in America. She does trace the fortune cookie back to Japan. Things like chop suey were probably leftovers feed to railroad workers and she could not find anyone in China who knew what General Tso's chicken was. Although there really was a General Tso.

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@aidan,

David wrote:

It had a superb French menu.

aidan wrote:

Yes, and it sounds as if that restaurant owner was French and decided
to make his restaurant an exclusive reflection of what French people eat when they're in France.
As a Chinese restaurant exclusively reflects what Chinese people eat in China.
As a Thai restaurant exclusively reflects what Thai people eat in Thailand, etc., etc...

So I think an American restaurant should or could reflect
what American people eat in America.

Here is a cut & paste from the last time I addressed that point:

David wrote:

The point of the thread (as I understand it)
is to get our American opinions of what is AMERICAN FOOD,
as distinct from food that originated in other places.

The point of the thread is to DISTINGUISH American food
from non-American food.

aidan wrote:

I think my menu fits that criteria.
And by the way, eggs benedict could have originated in America- according to legend- it could
also have originated in France. I guess that's up in the air.
All I know is if I put eggs benedict on my menu
it would be an accurate reflection of what American people eat in America- so it would fit.

This thread is about something different (as I understand it).

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@Green Witch,

Green Witch wrote:

According to The Fortune Cookie Chronicles: Adventures in the World of Chinese Food by Jennifer Lee, practically all Chinese restaurant food was invented in America. She does trace the fortune cookie back to Japan. Things like chop suey were probably leftovers feed to railroad workers and she could not find anyone in China who knew what General Tso's chicken was. Although there really was a General Tso.

With the commie revolution, a lot of information was lost.
Millions of educated people were murdered by the commies.
It might possibly just be lack of information having been passed down.
The commies had an effect on the educational system.

David

1 Reply

@Green Witch,

Quote:

Although there really was a General Tso.

Red China Blues and Jan Wong's China. I may not have recalled this correctly, but i'm pretty sure she reports that she met General Tso's son, and claimed that he did have a special chicken dish which he favored.

At the same time, i've read (from a source the accuracy of which i cannot verify) that it refers to Tsao-Tsao, a Han dynasty general of the later Han period, in the early third century.

I suspect that this is one of those things for which no one really has the answer.

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@OmSigDAVID,

I agree with David. This thread was an offshoot of another thread that talked about individual cultures and the foods they are associated with. It's not so much about opening a restaurant in America, but more about if you were creating a restaurant that only served foods strongly associate with or invented in America what would those foods be. Americans might drink beer, but it does not make it an American food. Apple pie is strongly associated with Americans so it counts. Americans invented Buffalo Wings so they are truly an American food. Philly cheese steaks, baked Alaska, gumbo, lobster rolls, corn dogs, egg creams, chop suey are all examples of strictly American.

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@OmSigDAVID,

I suggest you read the book, David. It's very fun and informative. I can tell you as someone whose mother has spent extensive time in China that there is a very strong culinary tradition there that goes back thousands of years, but it has nothing to do with Hop Sings Take-Out.

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@Setanta,

The author went to General Tso's hometown in China thinking she could find a connection. The village was very poor and no one knew the food that she was talking about. She wanted to suggest to them that they play on the American connection and create a tourist destination as an economic stimulus.

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A few thoughts up front: First, if I opened an American restaurant, it would be in Germany. What would be the point in opening an American restaurant in New Jersey? Second, McDonald has pretty much cornered the German market for hamburgers, fries, and shakes -- the kind of food Germans think of as quintessentially American. With that in mind, I would concentrate on traditional American food that Germans haven't yet heard much about. That would probably be ...

Cajun food (Jambalaya, blackened chicken and fish, poboys, beans & rice, the whole list)
BBQ, with a heavy emphasis on getting those Southern BBQ sauces just right
San Francisco style sourdough bread and wine from the Napa Valley
Boston baked beans and New England clam chowder
New York area Jewish food. Germans, at least generally, are still apprehensive about going to Jewish restaurants because of Holocaust guilt. A little chopped liver here, a bowl of matzeball soup there, and maybe my American restaurant can loosen up the Germans' inhibitions little by little
Poutines and butter tarts. But those are technically Canadian, so I'd have to sneak them in as specials while ehBeth isn't looking. Finally, last but not least ...
Ben and Jerry's ice cream for desert. It's a culinary disaster that Germany still doesn't know two of my three best friends on the North American continent. The third is Timmy Horton, of course. He'll serve the coffee.

So that's what I would serve in my American restaurant. Y'all are welcome anytime!

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@OmSigDAVID,

I guess I eat very little of what people consider to be American food then. Live and learn...
How about cherry pie though - that's American isn't it? I'll settle for that and eggs benedict, biscuits and gravy cornbread and cantaloupe - is cantaloupe American? How about sweet potatoes?

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@Thomas,

It's rather ironic, though--hamburgers are called hamburgers because the meat which was usually used was what is now called chuck steak, although in years gone by, it was known as Hamburg steak--hence, hamburgers.

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@aidan,

Sweet potatoes come in two varieties (originally, of course there's many more now)--Asian and African. The sweet potatoes in North America undoubtedly come from Africa.

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@aidan,

Most melons were first cultivated in places like Iraq and Iran. Most cherries originated in Asia. Pie has been around a long time, the Romans had versions, but Americans popularized it as a breakfast food in colonial times.

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@aidan,

Rebecca:
The central point is that the country of origin
is rightfully entitled to credit for the creative success
of its citizens FOREVER.

Did u see my edited supplement wherein I pointed out
that War and Peace will always be Russian Literature,
never American Literature, even if EVERY single American read the book?

David wrote:

I have a hunch that there is a specific ethnic group
that will lay legitimate claim to them.

aidan wrote:

Okay, so can I, as an American of Irish/Scottish/English/ and native American descent
lay claim to corned beef and cabbage and sodabread
(or brown bread as they call it), shortbread and haggis, bangers and mash and corn?

Or would people say, those are Irish/Scottish/English/ dishes - the only thing as an American I can rightly claim is corn?

Thay woud.

aidan wrote:

If a wider culture has integrated a dish into their repertoir of staple meals
to the extent that it is known and loved in that country - you don't consider
that food to have become a part of that culture?

Duck a'Lorange remains French food NO MATTER WHAT!

aidan wrote:

Are you going to tell American people who eat corn tortillas in Texas - that that is Mexican food?

Thay know it now; thay don 't need me to tell them.
I grew up in Arizona; we all knew very well the distinction
between Mexican food (painful burns from that) and American food, e.g. steak or fried chicken.

aidan wrote:

What if people have been eating corn tortillas in Texas since Texas became a state?

Its still Mexican food; b4 Texas became a state, it was part of Mexico. In millions of years,
it will still be Mexican food. Its a fact of history.

aidan wrote:

As I asked, how many hundreds of years does a culture have to eat something
before it becomes a cultural marker for those people?

I dunno, but Duck a'Lorange
will be French food FOREVER no matter where it is eaten.

aidan wrote:

And isn't integrating the food of a people
part and parcel of integrating those people?

I dunno, but I think that 's off topic.

aidan wrote:

And isn't that the point of America?

Yes, its not.
The point of America was to have a place to escape from England,
as I understood it. (I believe this is off topic.)

aidan wrote:

And are Americans who cook and eat those foods in America
not behaving in typically American ways? I think they are.

That does not convert alien cuisine into American cuisine.
The country of origin is rightfully entitled to credit for it FOREVER.

aidan wrote:

So I think you can consider those foods part of a typical American diet.
And that's what you'd serve in your restaurant if you wanted to appeal to American people.

That 's not the subject matter of this thread.

David

1 Reply

@Setanta,

The good poached egg is a wondrous thing.

I especially hate it when there's an obvious vinegar taste.

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I was very impressed--the eggs were properly done, did not taste of vinegar, and had not "broken."

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

There was a gentleman i recently met who is Canadian (have known his wife from online for a few years now) who prepared eggs benedict, using back bacon rather than ham. I was extremely impressed that he was able to poach a dozen eggs (it was a house party) at once, and get them all perfect. That's quite a culinary accomplishment!

his initials aren't RS by any chance

worked with a guy years ago in toronto, his special hangover cures after a house party was poached eggs, fried chicken livers and home fries, he poached them in water and vinegar, never broke a yolk and no vinegar taste

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No . . . no that wasn't the same guy . . . extraordinary that there are two men in Canada who can poach a dozen eggs at once without screwing up . . .oops, i just screwed the pooch . . .

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Rebecca:
The central point is that the country of origin
is rightfully entitled to credit for the creative success
of its citizens FOREVER.

Did u see my edited supplement wherein I pointed out
that War and Peace will always be Russian Literature,
never American Literature, even if EVERY single American read the book?

No, sorry I missed that. But I do see your point.

Quote:

Its still Mexican food; b4 Texas became a state, it was part of Mexico. In millions of years,
it will still be Mexican food. Its a fact of history.

Ah-hah! And people are always getting upset and saying that when Americans say America - they only mean the US and negate Canada and Mexico. I get their point, so I think we should start being more politically correct and accurately include Mexico in our thoughts when we say 'America' so we could include Mexican food when we say American food. That'd be a way I could legitimately include enchiladas and tamales on my menu.
aidan wrote:

Quote:

And isn't integrating the food of a people
part and parcel of integrating those people?

David replied:

Quote:

I dunno, but I think that 's off topic.

I don't think so. I think it speaks directly to the determination of the definition of American food.

Quote:

Yes, its not.
The point of America was to have a place to escape from England,
as I understood it. (I believe this is off topic.)

That might be why we left, but that doesn't adequately describe what we decided to try to achieve once we got here.

David - you're such an interesting mix of libertarian and conservative. This is what it is and this is only what it is and this is all it can ever be- how libertarian is that? What a constricted viewpoint.
In my mind it's not a matter of taking credit - it's a matter of becoming welcoming and inclusive - making room and being accepting of diversity and variety. Becoming more together than our parts alone would allow us to be otherwise.
Besides, I'm not particularly fond of corn.
But I'm thrilled that I could have eggs benedict on the menu.

Anyway - always a pleasure comparing ideas with you.

1 Reply

@aidan,

David wrote:

Rebecca:
The central point is that the country of origin
is rightfully entitled to credit for the creative success
of its citizens FOREVER.

Did u see my edited supplement wherein I pointed out
that War and Peace will always be Russian Literature,
never American Literature, even if EVERY single American read the book?

aidan wrote:

No, sorry I missed that. But I do see your point.

David wrote:

Its still Mexican food; b4 Texas became a state, it was part of Mexico.
In millions of years, it will still be Mexican food. Its a fact of history.

aidan wrote:

Ah-hah! And people are always getting upset and saying that when Americans say America - they only
mean the US and negate Canada and Mexico.

Yes, including the author of this thread who asks us to identify strictly American food
as distinct from the cuisine of anywhere else, such as Mexico.

aidan wrote:

I get their point, so I think we should start being more politically correct
and accurately include Mexico in our thoughts when we say 'America'
so we could include Mexican food when we say American food.

I will resist being politically correct, unless thay agree with me; then I 'm stuck with them.
Mexican food remains Mexican food, regardless of where or by whom it is eaten.

aidan wrote:

That'd be a way I could legitimately include enchiladas and tamales on my menu.

I am confident that the author of this thread meant the USA, not Mexico. If I am rong,
I 'm sure that I will be corrected.

Aidan wrote:

And isn't integrating the food of a people
part and parcel of integrating those people?

David replied:

Quote:

I dunno, but I think that 's off topic.

aidan wrote:

I don't think so. I think it speaks directly to the determination of the definition of American food.

The country of the origin of the food will always have bragging rights.
U can 't rip that off. As I pointed out: War and Peace will always be Russian Literature,
not American lit, nor Brazilian lit, regardless of whether it is read in those places; the same applies to food.

David wrote:

Yes, its not.
The point of America was to have a place to escape from England,
as I understood it. (I believe this is off topic.)

aidan wrote:

That might be why we left, but that doesn't adequately describe
what we decided to try to achieve once we got here.

We decided to live our lives in freedom by strangling the domestic powers of government;
we did not decide to rip off the intellectual property rights
of other countries by inflicting an American plagiarism upon them.

aidan wrote:

David - you're such an interesting mix of libertarian and conservative.
This is what it is and this is only what it is and this is all it can
ever be- how libertarian is that? What a constricted viewpoint.

The truth is constricted to the facts; this is a matter of truthful labeling; accurate identification qua origin.
Libertarians r not liberals (who deal in deception).

aidan wrote:

In my mind it's not a matter of taking credit -
it's a matter of becoming welcoming and inclusive - making room
and being accepting of diversity and variety. Becoming more
together than our parts alone would allow us to be otherwise.

If u allege that lasagna is AMERICAN food, u may well
have very irate, indignant Italians holding u to account
for plagiarism. Do u tolerate plagiarism in your students ?
What do u tell them about intellectual honesty ?

aidan wrote:

Besides, I'm not particularly fond of corn.
But I'm thrilled that I could have eggs benedict on the menu.

Anyway - always a pleasure comparing ideas with you.

Likewise, Rebecca.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

Nice list. I think you could also add some game food from both the Appalachian or Rocky mountains. Rabbit, venison, etc.

I've seen "American" restaurants overseas. They generally look like a Friday's.

1 Reply

What would you serve in your AMERICAN Restaurant

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