Not coming to Australia now :(

@msolga,

I think that article makes a very valid point about the outrage that crime from foreign nationals generates. It's the concept I was thinking about in this thread.

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@dlowan,

Quote:

Erm.....India's murder rate is only comparable with Australia's if both are expressed as murders per 100,000, or somesuch! Raw numbers are not directly comparable because India's population is a tad higher than Oz's

Yes, a number of AGE readers pointed that out in the (linked) feedback, Deb.

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@dlowan,

They have had some very bad moments with young people on the streets, to name another example

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On the same day as the murder in Melbourne, an Indian girl (21 or so) was murdered in Sydney.

It got much less publicity - but then she was murdered (stabbed and throat slit) by her Indian husband - and he fled to Melbourne - surely a tad ironic!

I think there's a certain level of racism in most of us. Especially in the older generations. I have a Chinese friend, and my elderly aunt always talks to her in a sort of pidgin English. My friend, although born in Malaysia, was educated in Australia, and is now Director of Pharmacy at one of the biggest teaching hospitals. She very occasionally struggles with individual words - but has a very good grasp of English - But -according to my aunt, she's still foreign and needs to be talked down to! My aunt and I have argued about this frequently - and her response is always: "Well - she understands me then!"

I used to live in a predominantly Asian community (I've now moved over to the Italians!). Examples of racism were everywhere. The most problems, though, came from Lebanese youths, who didn't actually live there. They used to roam the streets and shopping centres in gangs. They'd attack both whites and Asians, apparenly without discrimination. They were pretty scary, I tell you.

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@margo,

Quote:

On the same day as the murder in Melbourne, an Indian girl (21 or so) was murdered in Sydney.

It got much less publicity - but then she was murdered (stabbed and throat slit) by her Indian husband - and he fled to Melbourne - surely a tad ironic!

Ironic, indeed, margo.

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@msolga,

After mulling it over a bit I think it's that when some Indian guy kills some Indian girl it does not reflect in any way on them individually. However if it were a racist attack, whose only targeting criteria was the Indian race then it's an act that included them as potential targets.

Of course, race may not have been the criteria at all in this case, and I'd agree with those who think that Indians shouldn't be tarring and feathering Australia without even knowing if this is the case, but I think that is a part of why it is more offensive when it is.

And imagine how collectively sheepish they are going to feel if this is found to not have been a racially motivated attack. Unfortunately we may never know.

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@Robert Gentel,

A lot of the accusations of racism have been fueled by protests on the part of Indian students here, Robert. I don't know whether you read this thread from the beginning, I posted this earlier on. I think a lot of the resentment stems from their status as foreign students here.:

Quote:

There has been a huge influx of foreign students in recent years & yes, they have been exploited. But, by the same token, involvement in & payment for studies are often used as the first stage, a stepping stone for citizenship. (The notion of payment for citizenship is a pretty abhorrent concept to me. I'm not at all happy with the "citizenship industry".) There has been lot of exploitation. There are dubious, unregulated bogus courses. There are dubious, exploitative "education providers" (whose sole purpose appears to be quick financial gain, catering for the "citizenship industry". There are "migration agents" (often foreign nationals) making a hefty financial killing out of these students We have state & federal governments who have turned a blind eye, seeing these students merely as a huge source of revenue. I think it's Australia's number one revenue earner now. If not, close. There are many Australians who are very unhappy about many aspects of all this. So many aspects of the foreign "student industry" are very cynical & exploitative.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

They have had some very bad moments with young people on the streets, to name another example

Who have?

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@msolga,

That sucks. In America I know that some foreign students had some additional hoops to jump through and they certainly paid a lot for the privilege of being in America (with many of them studying in order to quality for the status of being in the US so the non-subsidized courses were their citizenship tax) but it sounds much more like an industry of it there.

I would love to start seeing more open border treaties. I wish we weren't so constrained by the lines in the sand.

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@msolga,

Ah. Doh...there IS a comparison of murder rates:

Quote:

its homicide rate is more than twice that of Australia. It is a country in which violent crime is commonplace - so commonplace that every day more than 100 Indians are murdered by other Indians, yet their TV news channels treat this as humdrum unless it involves some celebrity or unusual features.

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@dlowan,

Yes, sorry I knew that, Deb. Should have said. (I think the heat's getting to me here.)

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@Robert Gentel,

The other side of the coin is that a city like Melbourne is growing so fast (not just Indian students, though they are everywhere) that it's seriously straining at the joints. Over 3 million residents now & talk of 7 million Shocked

quite a way down the track! Madness. Very serious concerns that natural & other resources simply will not cope. I don't know how or why unregulated population growth is happening, but many of us are wondering who's keeping track of the consequences.

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@Robert Gentel,

Quote:

But between Canada, the US and Australia I'd probably say Australia is currently the worst of the three, and Canada the best.

Don't know what you've been smoking, but it must be good stuff. Slavery, race riots, ghettos, and you're calling Australia racist. Get your hand off your dick and look at the real world. You don't know ****.

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Fortunately, we have someone brilliant and erudite like you to correct our wayward thoughts . . .

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@msolga,

You know, I was thinking about how I think the governments' responses have been unhelpful, and that meant I figured I had to come up with something better.

I think the governments needed not to get into denying and defensiveness (though I sure as hell understand why they did.)

I don't think you deal with feelings in the first instance with rationality...I think you need to empathise and show you understand and respect the feelings.

Something like they understand that Indian folk may be feeling threatened, and it's damn hard when you are studying far from home, or have a family member far away in a foreign country and you are hearing such reports.

That the authorities are taking very seriously Indian concerns that the attacks might be racially motivated, even though there is no evidence at present that they are, and that they are investigating this angle very thoroughly.

Meanwhile more police on the streets, and would Indian citizens living in Oz be sure to report to them, or to community leaders, any racial harassment or threatening behaviour.

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I agree Dlowan but i would go even further and acknowledge that there can be some resentment that manifests itself in a number of different ways to ethnic populations from a small proprtion of ignorant uneducated and closed minded people living in Australia just as there is in many countries.
That the government and reasonable people of Australia do not want this happening and are working hard to ensure it is stamped out.

I' like to be sure and include the words ignorant and uneducated and i would like it publicised extensivly in Australia.

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@dadpad,

Yep.

We should work for the gummint!!!

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@dlowan,

Aorta do summink.

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Interesting article published by the BBC:

Quote:

....Unfortunately for Melbourne, the latest gruesome attacks follow a spate of muggings last year against Indian students in the city. Of course, Sydney experienced something similar, but Melbourne became the main focal point for the Indian students' angry protest campaign.

The irony is that a persuasive case could be made that Melbourne is
Australia's most successfully multi-racial city. It has a polyglot population, with residents from 140 nations living side by side. By the mid-1970s, 20% of the city's population spoke a non-English first language, and for much of the past decade its mayoral figurehead was John So, a popular politician who was born in Hong Kong. With justification, Melbourne can claim, as it does on its city website, to be 'the home, workplace and leisure centre of one of the world's most harmonious and culturally diverse communities.' And as its all-encompassing food culture attests, it has long been viewed as a melting pot rather than a pressure cooker.

In India especially, the reputational damage to the city will take a long time to repair. And there's been commercial fall-out, as well, to the Australia education sector, which, after coal and iron ore, is the country's third most lucrative export. This week, the Australian government released figures showing that student visa applications from India were 46% down following last year's attacks. One India-based education agent has said the market is 'absolutely doomed.'.....

Multi-racial Melbourne suffers blow to reputation:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/nickbryant/2010/01/multiracial_melbourne_suffers.html

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@msolga,

Go Melbs!!!

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Not coming to Australia now :(

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