14
   

Not coming to Australia now :(

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 07:38 am
@dlowan,
It's all a bit unfortunate, isn't it? Wink

Funny thing is, I don't feel at all defensive, or that I have to passionately defend the place, or anything. I live here & I actually know what the reality is. That's enough.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 08:26 am
@msolga,
Melbourne is a fabulous city.

I love it.

If these things are racist attacks, a few twisted and dangerous thugs don't change what Melbourne is.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 08:34 am
I'm sorry that the prince never returned, after his initial post which started this thread.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 07:12 pm
@msolga,
After following recent developments closely & after much contemplation, this is the conclusion I've come to, too.:

Quote:
Australia urged to tackle 'pockets of racism'
Posted 1 hour 3 minutes ago
ABC News online/Australia Day

Australia's Race Discrimination Commissioner says while Australians are not racist people, there are pockets of racism that need to be addressed "head on".

Speaking on ABC News Breakfast, Graeme Innes said he was very sad to hear another report of an attack on two Indian students in Melbourne overnight.

"We need to highlight this treatment as a serious human rights and race relations issue and stop denying that racism is a part of it," Mr Innes said.... <cont>


"We need to show the race card, recognise that there are persistent pockets of racism, and introduce programs to challenge that racism." http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/26/2801357.htm
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 07:30 pm
@msolga,
Sounds good to me.

But...I wonder how you address it by the time the racists are adult?
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 07:40 pm
@msolga,
is that with or with out letting those who don't agree with you speak? Given the recent history of australians letting the authorities control discourse and public images I think we already know which way this will go.
roger
 
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 08:42 pm
@msolga,
Well, based on a travel advisory he declared an entire continent to be too racist to be worth a visit. What's left to say?

I'm sure Pamala Rosa feels the same about South Africa.
msolga
 
  4  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 08:46 pm
@dlowan,
Actually, Deb, I was talking to a friend yesterday about how the problems of racism could best be tackled. (We have lots of these sorts of discussions, don't we?) After quite a lengthy discussion, I came to the conclusion that (of course!) there are no quick fixes. And the "solutions" need to be addressed with both short and long term strategies.

(I'm talking about Melbourne here, because this is the community I know best.) First step (as Peter Cosgrove advocated a couple of days ago) it is time to stop denying that the motives for some (at the very least) of these attacks on Indians a racist. We need to acknowledge that before the community can even attempt to find any real solutions.

In the short term, we need a far more determined effort on the part of the authorities to police the "known trouble spots" .. we all know where they are & it's not much good to having police blitzes at say, Footscray railway station, from time to time. Constant policing is what's needed, not just after yet another ugly "incident".

Finding long term "solutions" is a far more complex & a far more expensive proposition. Just about all of the "known" locations, the usual trouble trouble spots, are in communities with entrenched disadvantage. These are the affordable locations where each wave of new migrants/refugees often choose to settle, because housing is affordable. (Taking the example of Footscray, as a result of constant migrant settlement, it changed dramatically over the years, first into a hugely Vietnamese community, followed by a huge influx of Sudanese/Somali migrants, followed by ...) The thing is, such a huge influx of these new migrants on a regular basis (who often have nowhere near enough support) has compounded already existing community stresses & strains, by adding even more disadvantage to the existing disadvantage ... including even higher levels of unemployment as a result of the recession.

(Sorry to go on for so long, it's complicated ....) When you have established pockets like these you are going to have trouble. They are a recipes for trouble. Apart from everything else, so many unemployed young men, with not much hope or direction in life. (I'm talking about both established "Australian & also many of the new arrivals.) This is where the youth gangs establish themselves, this is where drug & alcohol problems are rife, this is where young people drop out of school early, these are areas where the stretched-to-the-limit, "under-performing" schools are, these are the areas with stretched community resources of every conceivable variety .... I could go on & on ...

What I am saying is that it is high time that both state & federal governments made some real effort to address the problems of these communities. I am talking about actually providing these communities with the resources that are actually required to address such severe disadvantage. Specifically targetted policies & funding. Very tall order, I know. But you cannot have these ghettos of poverty, ignorance, disadvantage & hopelessness without expecting something to eventually give. These communities are dealing with issues that most of us have never experienced, say nothing of comprehend. No way am I excusing or apologizing for acts of racism, but I do "get" the underlying causes of much of it, I think. Racist attacks are just a part of a much bigger problem in these communities.





msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 08:51 pm
@msolga,
May I add, that certain politicians pronouncements, appealing to the lowest common (racist) denominator sentiments within in the Australian community, doesn't help one little bit!
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 09:03 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
is that with or with out letting those who don't agree with you speak? Given the recent history of australians letting the authorities control discourse and public images I think we already know which way this will go.


hawkeye, you are most welcome to agree or disagree with anything I have actually posted here. If you have something relevant to say about this particular subject, feel free.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 09:21 pm
@roger,
Quote:
Well, based on a travel advisory he declared an entire continent to be too racist to be worth a visit. What's left to say?

I'm sure Pamala Rosa feels the same about South Africa.


Except the prince is no Pamela Rosa, roger. We both know that. Smile

I think he was very upset at the media & Indian government perceptions when he introduced this topic. And, really, I can understand that.

I'm hoping to see the prince here again soon. If not on this particular thread, anywhere else on A2K is fine by me. I miss him when he's not around.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 09:24 pm
@msolga,
Yep...fair enough.

0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 09:26 pm
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

May I add, that certain politicians pronouncements, appealing to the lowest common (racist) denominator sentiments within in the Australian community, doesn't help one little bit!



What pollies are doing that at present?

Haven't heard that so far. (Probably because am not reading much Oz media.)
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 09:26 pm
@dlowan,
The Mad Monk.

Who else? Wink
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 09:35 pm
@msolga,
Oh no!!!


I can't believe it.

What's he saying?
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 09:42 pm
@msolga,
Cultural translation for you non-Oz folk.: "The Mad Monk" is Tony Abbott, newish leader of the Liberal Party of Australia. (which -please note- is NOT liberal! The conservative Oz alternative) He has recently come out with a statement that immigration & population growth needs to be discussed in the broad Oz community.

I really think we need to seriously consider the rate population growth at this point in time in Australia (largely from the perspective of limited natural resources - like water! And climate change!) But his comment was widely perceived as appealing to racist elements, with little concern for much but political advantage from the lowest common denominator, for political advantage. (read Pauline Hanson/John Howard.)
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 09:58 pm
@msolga,
That's OUTRAGEOUS that the prick would hi-jack a necessary and serious discussion and decision we need to be having and making, by tying to a racist agenda!
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 10:02 pm
@dlowan,
You said it!

0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 04:46 am
@msolga,
Since I've last read this thread you've made three interesting posts that I want to reply to so I'll do them all in one here.

msolga wrote:

After following recent developments closely & after much contemplation, this is the conclusion I've come to, too.:

Quote:
Australia urged to tackle 'pockets of racism'
Posted 1 hour 3 minutes ago
ABC News online/Australia Day

Australia's Race Discrimination Commissioner says while Australians are not racist people, there are pockets of racism that need to be addressed "head on".



This is something that I found surprising earlier. When dadpad said that Australia emphatically does not have a problem with racism and that it was pockets of ignorant people I was genuinely surprised. It was as if he felt like others were saying Australia is monolithic and racist. That Australian culture itself is racist or something. It was, to me, an obvious point to make: that the racists are the minority.

But how much of that minority exists still can make it a problem. Australia strikes me as having some real issues to deal with in this regard and I think some of your other posts really highlight why (mainly immigration issues and wealth discrepancy).

msolga wrote:
Finding long term "solutions" is a far more complex & a far more expensive proposition. Just about all of the "known" locations, the usual trouble trouble spots, are in communities with entrenched disadvantage.


I think this is hugely insightful, from here it looks like the biggest problems revolve around the conflicts where there is significant discrepancy in economic situation and I think Australia's race friction is very much a part of Australia's disadvantaged communities problem.

msolga wrote:
I really think we need to seriously consider the rate population growth at this point in time in Australia (largely from the perspective of limited natural resources - like water! And climate change!) But his comment was widely perceived as appealing to racist elements, with little concern for much but political advantage from the lowest common denominator, for political advantage. (read Pauline Hanson/John Howard.)


I have mixed feelings about this. I have read that Australia is a uniquely fragile ecosystem that has faced external threats, and that Australia is swelling with immigrants and that there is going to be natural desire to preserve the status quo.

And I get how the sheer scale of immigration can cause real logistical problems, and racial friction. Here in Costa Rica about 25% of the population is from Nicaragua and the population here is overwhelmingly racist (much much more than Australia's issues, here the majority of Costa Ricans don't like Nicaraguans) but at the same time I feel for the people who are coming from much worse places and wish them the right to walk the earth.

I think it's natural to want to preserve what your community has and at some level I recognize that the logistics need to be controlled but seen from the point of view of the immigrant where they can't possibly drag the quality of life down to the level of where they currently are it's hard for me to support the Berlin walls.

It's one of the bigger internal conflicts I have, between the rights of a community to preserve the status quo they are partially responsible for creating versus the rights of an individual to seek happiness across arbitrary lines in the sand.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 07:06 am
@Robert Gentel,
Thank you for a thoughtful post, Robert.

This is such a complex subject. I'd like to respond with my thoughts about population growth & sustainability.
I have a LOT to say about the Australian government's attitude to migration as opposed to refugee intake .....

But it's just after midnight & I'm not sure that this is the best time to even attempt such things.

In the meantime, I hope other Oz A2Kers will chip in with their thoughts.
0 Replies
 
 

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