13
   

Not coming to Australia now :(

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 07:09 am
@maporsche,
Ha, masporsche, I used the South Park example simply to make a (very valid, I thought! Very Happy ) point.

So not to worry.

Peace be with you! Smile
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 07:16 am
@msolga,
hmmm.......


Somehow I think you're saying to yourself, "See, those Americans can't even see how racist their 'cartoons' are."

I hope your not (and I hope I'm not secretly racist because I watch/enjoy Southpark).

I'm no longer worried; it's too early here for that.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 07:19 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

For that matter, it is extremely hard to gauge an accurate national response to anything, if it's not some established homogeneous group. If were talking about say, reactions to racism in Australia by Australians, what exactly do we mean by "Australian"? It could mean an established Anglo-Australian from way back, it could mean a post-war immigrant like me, it could mean any number of recent arrivals, right down to new Indian-Australians in 2009. So many of us Australians are at different stages of "integration" with the country we live in. It could be argued that more recent arrivals are expressing the views of their country of origin.



Bada bing!!!!!!


I still think there's a lot of deeply embedded racism in the multi-generation Anglo population, though. I say this because of what I see and hear around me when I observe,

The more uneducated and poor, the more racist, generally speaking, these days.

I'd say it was almost endemic when I was a very weelowan...and almost unthinking. It was just ASSUMED that British heritage was it and a bit. It was like the sexism.

I recall vividly things that the very well intentioned and decent adults around me said that I kind of didn't "get'. They just didn't seem LOGICAL! WHY were we better?

It wasn't that they SAID "we're better"...it was just an assumption that had no need to be stated.

The only constant challenging of this I recall is re the Japanese.

We were greatly increasing trade ties with Japan then, and my parents were of the generation that fought WW II. Many of the men had been tortured and starved in Japanese POW camps....and they had a visceral hatred of Japanese born of this trauma, or of having heard about the suffering and having lost many friends to these camps.

They, generally, spoke, though, of how unfair it was to label a people because of this, and the need to put aside these feelings.

I could FEEL the evasion and guilt about Aborigines.

My mum was raised on a sheep station where the original owners were still around.

I was beginning to realise we had just stolen the land from them. When I would ask questions, you could see the discomfort about the subject.

My mum was clearly discomfited, which says she must have thought about it. The rationalisation that was trotted out then was about how they "hadn't used the land...the land belongs to the people who use it."

But the cracks showed.



msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 07:31 am
@maporsche,
Marsporshe, I declined the opportunity to get stuck into Americans earlier in this thread. If you want to wade through many, many posts you'll find this is true.

I was using the example of South Park to counter a suggestion that a certain recent item on Australian television indicated that Australians were racist.

I like South Park. It throws crap at everyone, showing no fear or favour!
Something pretty healthy about that. (I think?)
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 07:38 am

When I was in Austrailia about maybe 20 years ago,
I judged it a nice place. I was not on the alert for racism.
I did not chance to notice any.

If I ever return to partake again of the delights of Austrailia,
I will do so with no interest in how racist it is nor is not.





David
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 07:43 am
@dadpad,
Good post, dp.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 08:01 am
@dlowan,
Quote:
I still think there's a lot of deeply embedded racism in the multi-generation Anglo population, though.


No argument with that.
But they're a dying, fast becoming outnumbered breed.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 09:18 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

Quote:
I still think there's a lot of deeply embedded racism in the multi-generation Anglo population, though.


No argument with that.
But they're a dying, fast becoming outnumbered breed.


From your paws to reality!!!!!
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 09:21 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
In fact, the American experience shows that they have enriched our nation through their hard work, and the talents they have deployed in our society and economy


Oz is a massively different beast from what it was when I was little, because of immigration.

It is an infinitely better and richer place in my view.

Sure, there's friction to go with it.....but it feels to me as though we threw off the most stultifying miasma of dullness and torpor.

It's wonderful!!!
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 09:38 am
@dlowan,
It is interesting to talk to people of about my age who were born and raised in Toronto. It was an entirely different city then. The street we live on was part of the Italo-Greco-Macedonia neighborhood which predominated here until a few decades ago. Our next door neighbors on one side are Sicilian-Calabrian. The guy who is about my age, and who came from Sicily at about age seven says that when he first arrived, everyone on our side of the street were Sicilian or Calabrian, and everyone on the other side of the street were Greeks. The Macedonians apparently lived one street over.

They were, of course, all "white" men and women. Now the neighborhood is becoming predominantly east Asian (mostly Chinese), with some West Indians. A few blocks up, on the Danforth, there is a Kosovar restaurant, a Jamaican restaurant, a Somali restaurant, an Ethiopian restaurant . . .

When you talk to these people, they tell you how much Toronto has changed in the last forty years.

Several weeks ago, The Girl brought home some food from an Afghan restaurant. It reminded me of the food i am used to from North Africa and the Middle East, except that where the North Africans would use couscous, they used potatoes. But the other big difference was that they are apparently influenced by the hot curries of the subcontinent. The food was way more spicy than i would expect from a North African or Middle Eastern cuisine.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 06:12 pm
@msolga,
Meanwhile, back to the prince's post, at the very start of this thread. This is how Victorian police have been portrayed in an Indian newspaper, because they still haven't identified & charged the murderer of Indian student, Nitin Garg. Crikey.:


Victorian police outraged by Indian KKK cartoon

Posted 2 hours 34 minutes ago
Updated 2 hours 8 minutes ago
ABC news online


http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201001/r495673_2592509.jpg
The cartoon appeared in the Delhi Mail Today newspaper. (ABC Breakfast)

Victoria's Police Association has reacted angrily to a cartoon in an Indian newspaper depicting one of the state's officers as a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

The Delhi Mail Today newspaper published the cartoon in response to the murder of Indian student Nitin Garg in Melbourne last weekend.

The cartoon shows a person in a Ku Klux Klan hood wearing a Victoria Police badge, with a caption that reads: "We Are Yet To Ascertain The Nature Of The Crime."


Quote:
Police Association secretary Greg Davies says it is highly offensive to suggest police are not properly investigating the murder.

"To say that our detectives are going slow on this, or for some reason trying to protect somebody, is incredibly offensive and wrong," he said.

"It's based on nothing but obviously a slow news day in Delhi.

"The identity of the offender from the homicide in Footscray isn't even known at this stage, so we don't even know what nationality the offender is.

"To say it's a race-based crime is not only premature, but stupid." ...<cont>

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/08/2787928.htm
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 06:23 pm
@msolga,
Meanwhile .... this article was published in the AGE newspaper yesterday ...
Including this cartoon:


http://images.theage.com.au/2010/01/07/1021128/wbOPspooner0701-420x0.jpg

Plus video with police response to the KKK cartoon. :

Indian TV's unsound fury
January 7, 2010/the AGE

Quote:
In 2007, according to India's National Crime Records Bureau, 32,318 people were murdered in India. Another 3644 were victims of ''culpable homicide'', roughly equating to manslaughter. In a category of its own, 8093 brides or their relatives were killed in ''dowry deaths'' - murdered by greedy grooms and in-laws angry over the amount of dowry paid by the bride's family. And there were a further 27,401 attempted murders.

By contrast, in 2007, the Australian Bureau of Statistics reports, 255 people were murdered in Australia. Another 28 were victims of manslaughter, and 246 survived attempted murders. No dowry deaths were recorded.

India, of course, is a very big country. But the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime estimates that relative to population, its homicide rate is more than twice that of Australia. It is a country in which violent crime is commonplace - so commonplace that every day more than 100 Indians are murdered by other Indians, yet their TV news channels treat this as humdrum unless it involves some celebrity or unusual features.
Indian student murder furore.

Yet when an Indian is murdered overseas, these news channels whip themselves and their viewers into a froth of indignation at the country concerned. How can this happen?, they thunder. How can any civilised nation fail to protect its residents? What kind of racist country is this?

How does this happen? Well, it happens because human beings are imperfect creatures. They can be selfish, they can be hateful, they can enjoy hurting, even killing, other humans. It happens here, it happens in India, it happens everywhere ...<cont>


http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/indian-tvs-unsound-fury-20100106-lu8y.html
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 06:30 pm
@msolga,
Meanwhile, this is what's been going on in Footscray, the site of the killing ..:

http://images.theage.com.au/2010/01/07/1022067/Frisk-420x0.jpg

Quote:
.....The area was chosen by police to test their controversial new powers as it has a history of knife crime.

There had been plenty of publicity about the area being targeted, and the operation was planned before Mr Garg’s death.
By law there must be notification in the media of an area selected a week before a blitz.

The new laws allow police to search in a designated area without a warrant.

Mr Walshe deflected criticism that publicising a targeted area for up to a week before the operation took the sting out of it.

"History tells me that regardless of what you publicise, people who have a tendency to carry weapons will still carry them and take their chances," he said.

"People who engage in this sort of activity will engage in it, regardless of any prior notification we give them.

He was not wrong. Police found seven people carrying 12 weapons, including knives, a machete and a knuckleduster, and another person was found in possession of drugs during the three-hour blitz. ....


http://www.theage.com.au/national/weapons-seized-as-hunt-for-killer-continues-20100107-lwsv.html?autostart=1
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 06:34 pm
Sigh.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 06:38 pm
@msolga,
AGE readers' responses to this article. Interesting.:

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/indian-tvs-unsound-fury-20100106-lu8y.html#comments
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 06:46 pm
Are you still with us, prince? Anything you'd like to say about all this, as you started this thread. I'd be very interested.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 06:58 pm
@msolga,
Cartoonists get away with the most sweeping stereotypes. I think Victorian police defended themselves well.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 07:17 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Yes, but they would have been crazy to escalate this inter-country slang match, wouldn't they? The real problem in all this, I think, has been government inaction. Footscray is a known area for youth problems .. high unemployment, massive migration of a variety of different ethnic groups (some of whom have formed gangs, based on ethnicity. As have their Australian counterparts) drugs ..... some huge stresses & strains in that community ( & other similar centres) which should have been addressed well before this.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 07:35 pm
@msolga,
Erm.....India's murder rate is only comparable with Australia's if both are expressed as murders per 100,000, or somesuch! Raw numbers are not directly comparable because India's population is a tad higher than Oz's.

Also, what is being alleged is hate crimes against Indians resident in Oz....whether or not those allegations are true.

The only relevant data, as I see it, would be comparison of percentage of assaults/homicides that result from racial targetting of the victim.

You could argue reasonably, I think, that people targetted because of religion could also be included.



dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 07:36 pm
@msolga,
Likely very unfair re this stuff...but by golly Oz police have had an AWFUL history re aboriginal people!!!
 

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