putting things out of reach of small childern

Firearms? Totally, completely out of reach at all times. I know you have talked about being taught -- that is debatable, but is still with a responsible adult right there. If we are talking about in or out of reach, meaning a kid can get at it without an adult around, absolutely 100% out of reach, locked up, different parts different places, IF they must be in the home at all.

The whole listen/ do what I say thing is fraught. It can just lead to control issues that are harder to deal with down the line. You can "make" a 3 or 4 year old listen in the way you can't make a 16 or 17 year old listen.

My husband was raised in a very authoritative household like you describe, and was an absolute terror as a teen. I mean, really bad. I was raised in a very permissive household, and was a dream teenager. (Had my iffy moments, but have never touched drugs, etc.)

Not saying these examples are representative.

Generally, as a parent, I pick my battles. I see no reason to have a sharp knife within my daughter's reach to teach her to listen to me when I tell her not to touch it. If we have fewer battles, she is more likely to listen to me for the important things. The less I say "no", the more weight it carries.

My opinion.

I kinda went with Soz's ideas when my daughter was little. Some items were clearly picked up and put away where they absolutely couldn't be touched by her - some for her safety and others just to make sure they didn't get broken.

But everything else was fair game. I didn't put safety plugs in every wall outlet, didn't put safety catches on every cabinet in the kitchen/bath and day to day use items were left out on the coffee table or kitchen counter tops.

But.. she did learn "the voice". There were lots of things she could do around the house but when she did something and was spoken to in a very specific way she knew that she was treading thin ice and would stop. Those things didn't happen very often so it wasn't that big of a deal.

I'd guess that the more restrictions there are the more likely the kid will come to resent them.

Yep, I just came back to say what fishin' just described... that while I get the really actually dangerous things out of the way, I also leave a lot of things. The elements I take into account include things like how dangerous it could actually be and how much it matters to me if she breaks it.

I generally have her in situations just past what she can handle... if she doesn't make mistakes, she'll never learn anything. At the same time, setting her up for failure -- of COURSE she'll be extremely interested in that red and gold sparkly antique glass sugar set, the breaking of which would make me MAD -- doesn't help anything, IMO.

If you choose to keep firearms in your home, teach your children how to handle them properly as soon as they are big enough to hold them. Keep them locked up when not in use.

Don't take this the wrong way. I'm a big proponent of hunting and fishing. Getting kids involved in these activities is one of the best ways to teach them respect for all life, and keep them out of trouble.

I think there's something to what safecracker has noted. And it stands to reason. Once discipline and understanding of who's the boss is established, it must be alot easier than having to brawl with your kid constantly or just give up altogether. My mother was from the school of do not touch. She adored displaying her knickknacks.
I was raised in a very disciplined household and rarely got into trouble. Wasn't so concerned with peer pressure as I was with daddy-pressure. He was a trip and that kept me pretty much in line.
You don't want your child in danger, having weapons lying around, but you also don't want to set up an unrealistic world, where nothing is on the tabletop.

The "voice". A lost art. So is the "look".

1st of all, if you lock up your firearms how can you use them for home deffense? I don't lock up mine *accept for the firearms with great value* but i do not keep them loaded either, how are they a danger without ammo, it's not my children I worry about it's their friends lol anyone elses kid is over and I put them up. Bottom line if the kid sees the firearm everyday it's just going to become another object no big deal. I wasn't really reffering to firearms in my sisters case just stuff in general like my brother in laws music equipment and stuff. But when it comes to firearms attitude is all about how you grow up and your education on the subject. By not showing our children objects are objects then are we not setting them up for the mistake of acting like the are something overly special when they are in reach? As far as the sharp knife i would just say "if you touch that it might hurt you it's sharp so don't touch" it works with james because james has grown up that way. I've never had to put anything out of his reach EVER.

Ok... *ahhem* I'm as big of a fan of firearms as you are likely to find but, if I may be so blunt - this comment is just plain nutty!

You don't lock them up because you wouldn't be able to use them for self defense? How do you use them without them being loaded?

Any firearm that ISN'T being used should be locked up. It should be unloaded and preferrably stored in a safe or locking storage container (ideally, where it isn't visable). Both to protect children around your own home and to prevent others from stealing them.

If the firearm is out it should be in use - by that I mean within your direct control (i.e. carried on your hip!). Not left under a pillow, in a drawer, on a nightstand or behind a door.

Sorry to sound like a bit of an ass here but it is the cavalier attitude about firearms storage like this that leads to kids getting hurt and gun owners getting a bad reputation.

Agreed. I was looking through my Dad's travel bag recently, and came upon his loaded .22 pistol in the holster. I was not very happy with him. He has a CC license, but I wasn't expecting to find it there.

fishin the ammo is in a safe place I can access quickly which the children can not get at, if someo ne wants to steak a firearm they will do so safe or no safe. My m1911 is the only handgun i keep out (which is my home defense weapon and service pistol) my rifles have no need to be locked up as im in a rural area and often need a firearm on hand to kill a critter lurking around my home. proper training is the safety of my children.

Holy ****!

What sort of places do you live in, that you need firearms for home defence??? Obviously the mindset is totally different there!

And the stupidity of carrying a loaded pistol, and leaving it in a bag.

Such a violent society

You aussies are a bunch of subjects, not citizens.

Does anybody HUNT in oz????

I don't keep firearms in the apartment, not even for defence. It might be partly because I highly doubt that the old Jewish ladies who are my neighbours would ever think of trying to break in, unless of course they forget where they live, and try their keys in my door.

My Dad has every right to carry the loaded weapon, especially when travelling to an isolated rural cabin. IMO he's smart, not violent.

I just think it should have been on his hip, not in his bag.

You aussies have had all your guns stripped from you by your government, making you subjects.

cjsha - I think you're being harsh with Margo.

I agree with what fishin has to say on the topic of gun handling.

Well, sorry, but not really. Australia is a part of the U.N, and they deprive their citizenry of gun ownership. The U.N. is trying to force gun laws on the U.S. that I don't agree with, that violate our second ammendment.

Honestly though, I currently have no gun in my house. It's a tiny house, and while I could lock it up and teach my kids gun safety (which I do when I'm in Michigan, not here), but it's their stupid friends I'd be worried about. Another reason is that I live so close to the local cop shop. I can dial 911 and they'll be there faster than I could find my weapon and load it.

Middle of nowhere though is a different story. My cabin in Michigan is quite isolated, and it has been broken into repeatedly. Going in there unarmed is fairly risky.

When did this happen?

ok, but don't bash Margo, she didn't make a pointed remark at anyone of you.

For the most part, I agree with fishin too. Except I wouldn't agree to wearing a loaded gun anywhere around kids unless you're police. They're trained to be especially cautious about people trying to take their firearms. A kid could easily take a gun out of your holster and fire it as a joke before most people could react properly.

According to a recent seminar I attended put on by our local police department, a gun in the home is 11 times more likely to hurt someone in the family than to be used on a criminal in defense. The schools here teach our children that if they even SEE a gun (whether they know it's real or not), they are to tell a teacher immediately. The teacher is then required to notify a security guard and/or the principal immediately. They are sending a VERY strong message to the kids that guns are bad.

That wasn't necessary when we were growing up, but sad to say, it is now. Last year, a second grader brought a loaded gun to school here. Pulled it on a teacher. Thought he was being funny. And a fourth grader was caught with a loaded gun & ammo in his locker after threatening several children he didn't like.

Safecracker, we disagree on this one. Sorry. I will say this...my son was taught how to handle a b-b gun in Scouts last year. Outside the city limits. He thinks of it in the same context as archery. Purely an outdoor skill. I think that's appropriate for a 9 year old.