22
   

morals and ethics, how are they different?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 09:08 pm
@Fido,
Children? Heck, everybody knows more than me!
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 10:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Children? Heck, everybody knows more than me!

Imagine knowing without being taught... We bond instinctually, and the psychological effects are life long and without compare... And think of how many live in denial of their attachment, who deny all attachment, and the many who reject all emotion and over intellectualize... I mean, what you point to, a human morality, is what metaphsicists have been pointing at for thousands of years without effect, and now science has proved we are one family and there will be no effect... Those people who bond, who have the basis of morality feel that special feeling only for a few, and they can only imagine a better world of love binding all people to each other and holding them back from violence, freeing all to commiserate with each other our common pain...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 10:10 pm
@Fido,
I in turn would like to know why you seam to imagine that conflict is not necessary ? (a "fair" part of the World)
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 10:13 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
A "fair" part of the world? I would say "majority."

There's even conflict when we go shopping.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 10:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
...Yeap ! Wink
I meant fair in the sense that is admissible to an extent, and necessary to evolution...
...conflicts are challenges...
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 01:35 am
@Fido,
Not all of us see the world as you do Fido. I must be a mixed breed as I try and see good in all people. I do no that we all have the ability to do wrong toward each other.
You truely have a very different view of the world than I do and I am sure many others.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 07:57 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

I in turn would like to know why you seam to imagine that conflict is not necessary ? (a "fair" part of the World)

Because people do not value their own resouces highly enough, they burn through them and seek those of others they think are wasted on such low lifes...

Those who start those wars have every reason to fear justice will remove them from their wealth and power, and return the money they have stolen to the common wealth...

Those whe fight the wars that others start inflict the same injustice they themselves have suffered always, which they then justify for themselves by inflicting upon others...

War is the greatest waste of intelligence, life, and resources; and does not even have the benefit of feud violence in weeding out the weak and leaving the strong and intelligent... Instead, the strong and most intelligent are those first selected to serve the cause of war and defeat the cause of humanity...

So; while I know morality as natural, beginning with family and ending with nation; still, people ought to realize that others are no less human and feel for their kin just as strongly... If you cannot rationalize morality, you can rationalize civility and build a city of all people covering the entire earth... Only defensive war is at all justified, so long as not the result of provocation... If people keep their populations below the ability of the land to support them, there is no need for war...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 08:15 am
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Not all of us see the world as you do Fido. I must be a mixed breed as I try and see good in all people. I do no that we all have the ability to do wrong toward each other.
You truely have a very different view of the world than I do and I am sure many others.

To see the good in all people you must first strip them of their humanity... We all grew up with romances of the noble savage, Tarzan of the Apes, Frankenstein even, the Last of the Mohecans; and many others... There is no noble savage, and nearly no natural nobility.... People are people, and judging by the Chidren of Barbarians I have worked with, there was nothing wrong with their heads...But they, and no peoples of the past were any better than the next... Humanity has never changed so far as I can tell... Instead of changing, people change their forms: -Of food production, housing, government, transportation, warfare, and etc... All progress has involved a change of forms, and every form has left basic humanity unchanged... What the Muslims say is true: If you would change the world, first change yourself... Then you realize how difficult change is, and settle for a change of behavior, or a change of mind... So, to say people are good, when people are all we have to compare people to, is daft in the first place...Trying to paint a good face on people is pure insanity...Humanity is humanity, not bad nor good, nor even better or worse... Humanity is what it is...People are what people are... The essential fact is: people are irrational mostly, ignorant always, and some times rational... Our only chance to change anyone for the better through the emotions which are irrational, and thoughts which are rational... No one can make a dent in ignorance since it is our common attribute... We are ignorant and we know it and we admit it if we are honest...

Let me give you another fact, which is the sole information I once took from a phsycology text book I happened upon: ALL Change is an attempt at problem solving...Not you, nor I, nor anyone changes anything in their lives nor their own behavior except in response to a problem they cannot deny...People can be naturally good, which is to say moral in relation to their communities; but to be better than that a person must be wise... How many is that???
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 08:22 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

A "fair" part of the world? I would say "majority."

There's even conflict when we go shopping.


Stay out of the sporting goods section...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 03:06 pm
@Fido,
Hi Fido, I am not looking for a perfect utopia and I do realize that people will always have problems, psychology seems to understand this very well. I do have to say, that we can not take every book that we have read as if it were scientific and I am sure that you know that.

I do think that me and the rest of the world take some things that we read and call them absolutes and we are wrong. Do you ever do this?
If you think that it may be possible could there be many things that you think to be true but are false?

I am only looking for a better understanding of things so that we may have a more civil society! what kind of things can we prove scientifically that we are doing wrong ethically?
Did you take the time to watch the link that I gave you? Please answer this question and tell me what you think is wrong with it. I am sure that he made a mistake some where as he is only human.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrA-8rTxXf0
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 04:01 pm
@Fido,
I always go solo to sporting goods stores.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 04:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I always go solo to sporting goods stores.

If I were you I would avoid those places altogether... What is the point of looking like a lamb at a meat market...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 04:17 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Hi Fido, I am not looking for a perfect utopia and I do realize that people will always have problems, psychology seems to understand this very well. I do have to say, that we can not take every book that we have read as if it were scientific and I am sure that you know that.

I do think that me and the rest of the world take some things that we read and call them absolutes and we are wrong. Do you ever do this?
If you think that it may be possible could there be many things that you think to be true but are false?

I am only looking for a better understanding of things so that we may have a more civil society! what kind of things can we prove scientifically that we are doing wrong ethically?
Did you take the time to watch the link that I gave you? Please answer this question and tell me what you think is wrong with it. I am sure that he made a mistake some where as he is only human.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrA-8rTxXf0

The only true truth I know of is that with life comes meaning... I don't care what absolute truth you have found may be... If your truth leads to my extermination, it cannot be true...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 04:28 pm
@Fido,
I'm a wolf in sheep's clothing. Went to BIG5 today and bought a waterproof hiking boots (for a very good price) for my trip to Norway on September 23. I'm bringing a spare that I sprayed with waterproofing.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 04:36 pm
@Fido,
I do not believe in absolute truths Fido! I am blinded by my ignorance and I have to keep reminding myself that I do not know things as well as they could be known. I did ask a question of you and I was hoping for an answer from you, I know that you owe me nothing and the only thing that I have to offer in return is my gratitude. Thank you for sharing all that you have though.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 05:24 pm
If we admit to the existence of morals and/or ethics we then must give credence in the superlatives of wrong and right... Can wrong and right be as easy as black and white or is it the depth and perspective that makes it gray?

What is the meaning of love?
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 05:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I'm a wolf in sheep's clothing. Went to BIG5 today and bought a waterproof hiking boots (for a very good price) for my trip to Norway on September 23. I'm bringing a spare that I sprayed with waterproofing.
Norway! And you did not invite me along? Smile
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 05:45 pm
@RexRed,
RexRed wrote:

If we admit to the existence of morals and/or ethics we then must give credence in the superlatives of wrong and right... Can wrong and right be as easy as black and white or is it the depth and perspective that makes it gray?

What is the meaning of love?


I am sure that there are many definitions to "What is the meaning of love?" Mine would be to treat others no different than the way you would want to be treated. Now I do realize that others may treat themselves in ways that I would not want to be treated but what more can you ask from someone than what they understand? Do not impose your beliefs on others would be a sign of compassion as long as they are not causing you harm.

0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 06:57 pm
@Fido,
Say that to the Dinosaurs !...he he he... Wink
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 09:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I'm a wolf in sheep's clothing. Went to BIG5 today and bought a waterproof hiking boots (for a very good price) for my trip to Norway on September 23. I'm bringing a spare that I sprayed with waterproofing.

I think you are planning for rosey toes... Feet sweat.. Water Proof goes both ways, and whether they are soaked from the inside or the outside make no difference... I think I would wear what the outdoors people wear there...
0 Replies
 
 

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