22
   

morals and ethics, how are they different?

 
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 06:04 pm
@north,
Ethics is Universal, Moral is subjective...
north
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 06:07 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Ethics is Universal, Moral is subjective...


how so ?

Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 06:22 pm
@north,
Ethics according to my Cosmogony (this is not a claim but a belief) is funded in the Universal Law´s that govern the World...they (Ethic Laws) are the last layer on a chain way back to physics, the "software" upon the "hardware of life", of mankind...one can even argue from a Jus-natural point of view that they are the base for Roman Law. Yet and besides their "human dressing", they preserve the heritage of more fundamental LAW´s, the Law´s of Nature...they must apply independently of culture or background because they directly report to the need of Order and Truth, of Equilibrium. Ethics is about why, "you shall not kill if not in self defence" is justified in the need for a Society to emerge, if a species is to develop complex task behaviour, based on a necessity in accordance to Evolutionary process.
...on the contrary Moral is local and heavily dependent on cultural costume and use...nevertheless, while the need for Moral is Universal, Moral Law, it is n´t.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 06:32 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Ethics according to my Cosmogony (this is not a claim but a belief) is funded in the Universal Law´s that govern the World...they (Ethic Laws) are the last layer on a chain way back to physics, the "software" upon the "hardware of life", of mankind...one can even argue from a Jus-natural point of view that they are the base for Roman Law. Yet and besides their "human dressing", they preserve the heritage of more fundamental LAW´s, the Law´s of Nature...they must apply independently of culture or background because they directly report to the need of Order and Truth, of Equilibrium. Ethics is about why, "you shall not kill if not in self defence" is justified in the need for a Society to emerge, if a species is to develop complex task behaviour, based on a necessity in accordance to Evolutionary process.
...on the contrary Moral is local and heavily dependent on cultural costume and use...


give an example though of ethics in the Natural world

on your comment about morals I agree
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 06:41 pm
@north,
On highly developed species, mammals for instance, that live in a social environment, there seams to be present a rudimentary notion of some ethical principles concerning the well being of the group. Elders can be respected and supported up to an extent, robbery can be punished (no so often) and gratuitous aggressive behaviour refrained if not justified by more fundamental principles.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 06:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

All your explanations are nonsense. Your towel analogy is childish at best.

You're a towel.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 06:54 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

While I think your definition is interesting, I disagree with it. However, that's why we discuss these things, right?

See there; disagreement is essential to education, for when one must draw upon knowledge to prove a opinion held without consideration, everyone learns... Everyone knows more than they think, and that is not any better than thinking more than you know... It is nice to find some sort of balance...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 06:57 pm
@north,
north wrote:

existential potential wrote:

could someone please enlighten me with some answers to this question?


morals are which you hold to yourself , ethics is the outward expression of your morals

Life should be the outward expression of morals... How much do you do without forethought is exactly the extent of your immorality... Of course, since no one can consider all actions in advance, one must act on character and be certain ones character is always ethical...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 06:58 pm
@Fido,
How about advising some reading upon the epistemic problem on knowing and how it differs from the problem of Truth all along ? Rolling Eyes
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 06:59 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

On highly developed species, mammals for instance, that live in a social environment, there seams to be present a rudimentary notion of some ethical principles concerning the well being of the group. Elders can be respected and supported up to an extent, robbery can be punished (no so often) and gratuitous aggressive behaviour refrained if not justified by more fundamental principles.


but what are the ethical principles based on ...?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 07:01 pm
@north,
Who's ethics is FA talking about? Is cannibalism considered human ethics? Humans used to sacrifice and eat humans. What ethics were those?
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 07:04 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Ethics is Universal, Moral is subjective...

Are those supporsed to be opposites or complements??? There is a universal quality to ethics in that all nations had some... What makes morals seem subjective is the thought that they reflect the character of an individual, and they do not... Ones morals are learned from family, extended family, community, friends and nation, and reflect honor or dishonor upon ones own... Morals are the ticket into a community, and immorality is the ticket out... And one who pretends to morals without moral fiber is not a member of the community he preys upon, but a parasite at best... Individualism and the experience of life is subjective... Sharing ones life and energy with ones community, sacrificing for the common spirit as everyone else tends to make the experience objective, though nothing in life is entirely objective...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 07:06 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Ethics according to my Cosmogony (this is not a claim but a belief) is funded in the Universal Law´s that govern the World...they (Ethic Laws) are the last layer on a chain way back to physics, the "software" upon the "hardware of life", of mankind...one can even argue from a Jus-natural point of view that they are the base for Roman Law. Yet and besides their "human dressing", they preserve the heritage of more fundamental LAW´s, the Law´s of Nature...they must apply independently of culture or background because they directly report to the need of Order and Truth, of Equilibrium. Ethics is about why, "you shall not kill if not in self defence" is justified in the need for a Society to emerge, if a species is to develop complex task behaviour, based on a necessity in accordance to Evolutionary process.
...on the contrary Moral is local and heavily dependent on cultural costume and use...nevertheless, while the need for Moral is Universal, Moral Law, it is n´t.


I would have to check my book, but from my understanding, Roman law existed long before the Roman Law of Nations from which we get the notion of natural law... I think you have your cart before your horse...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 07:09 pm
@Fido,
They are complementary and both needed and justified...my remark upon Moral was not a critique...agreed with most of what you said...

The difference between us is not in the goal but in the means to get there...I like to think my approach to the problem is more down to earth and less transcendental then yours, but I certainly appreciate your words of wisdom anyway !
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 07:11 pm
@Fido,
What Nations are you speaking of ??? Who said the opposite ?
Necessity brought Roman Law, what else ? and that was my solely support for Universality...you get it backwards. I was not addressing international Law...
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 07:14 pm

but aren't morals and ethics come about at the sametime

my thinking upon this is stealing

think back 5000yrs ago , stealing was thought , I assume , a threat to ones survival and/or family , by everyone

so that morality and ethics sort of grew together as an behavior of conduct understood by all

Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 07:15 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

How about advising some reading upon the epistemic problem on knowing and how it differs from the problem of Truth all along ? Rolling Eyes

No thanks... I hate that stuff... The closest book I have to that subject on my pile now is Kurt Hubner's critique of scientific reason, but the two books I am juggling at the moment are Martin Heidegger: Between Good and Evil, by Rudeger Safranski; which touches on some of this subject, and Freud, the mind of the moralist by Philip Rieff, an older book copy righted in 59; well written and informative... Actually, they are all pretty good...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 07:21 pm
@north,
Agreed ! Together always...but Ethics is more fundamental and less dependent on cultural costume...Ethics is about the protocols for the operative system network of Society to work, fundamental software...Moral is just an anti virus in the hard drive...it helps !
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 07:22 pm
@north,
north wrote:

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

On highly developed species, mammals for instance, that live in a social environment, there seams to be present a rudimentary notion of some ethical principles concerning the well being of the group. Elders can be respected and supported up to an extent, robbery can be punished (no so often) and gratuitous aggressive behaviour refrained if not justified by more fundamental principles.


but what are the ethical principles based on ...?


allow me: It is the preservation of the life of society which contains ones own life, and is the source of ones identity, ones nearest kin, and dearest friends... We would not be without our communities, and we cannot imagine ourselves without our communities, though now we try as never before to do just that, and to see ourselves outside of our communities which are our true homes is to see ourselves as outlaws, and immoral... And is that not who our heroes are: outlaws, individuals???... Anti-heroes too as well, with the courrage to step beyond the saftey net of society and spit in the face of god... We prove ourselves and prove god at the same time, really become god in the process of proving god does not exist; and then we find morals have an entirely practical value, and the disease, pain, loneliness and death immorality invite is no illusion, as god was... There are consequences to immorality in the dissolution of society... Be aware...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 07:31 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

What Nations are you speaking of ??? Who said the opposite ?
Necessity brought Roman Law, what else ? and that was my solely support for Universality...you get it backwards. I was not addressing international Law...

The Roman law of nations, the source of our natural law was international law, and it is also the first place incidentally and perhaps accidentally that human equality was first put forward as a legal idea, not for individuals, but for nations... From their perspective, all the nations of people governed by Rome where all the same, and in fact, most people are very similar in their morals because necessity, the necessity of genetic survival was the point of it... A person, an individual might choose to live a disolute life, but no well thinking community would do so... Good social health, no feuds, theft, murder, adultery, or disrespect could be accepted... People had to worship the common God, and sacrifice...It is not rocket science... We would all get it if the notion, the false notion of th eindividual did not get in the way...
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
DOES NOTHING EXIST??? - Question by mark noble
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
 
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 07/18/2019 at 12:41:37