Even some scientists give lip service to fairy tales.

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

add something when you dont make a fool of yourself, hard as that may be.
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I love you to and your diamond hard head....................

Now all we need is a discussion on how many angels can dance on the top of your pointed head.

If past history is a guide your number will be high by over a hundred percent.

Oh, good! Riddles! I love riddles.

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@Merry Andrew,

A Bud-hist ??? Is that someone who gets drunk on Budweiser and reads history books ???

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@BillRM,

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A supernatural event is define as some event outside the laws of the universe both known and unknown such as an interfering god

Ahhh....Bill....you cant define something by saying it is unknown.

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@BillRM,

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bring the rotting body of a long death person back to life.

If your example is from the story of Jesus raising Lazarus, I think you should know that Lazarus was not dead, he was "dead". The difference being he was excommunicated by the priests for some sin and was buried alive in a tomb. Jesus as heir to the title King of the Jews, had the authority to raise Lazarus under powers first used by King David, Jesus's ancestor.

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
bring the rotting body of a long death person back to life.
If your example is from the story of Jesus raising Lazarus, I think you should know that Lazarus was not dead, he was "dead". The difference being he was excommunicated by the priests for some sin and was buried alive in a tomb. Jesus as heir to the title King of the Jews, had the authority to raise Lazarus under powers first used by King David, Jesus's ancestor.

Where did you get this story? It certainly does not follow the story in the bible which states that Lazarus was ill and died.

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@Ionus,

I to would like to know where you came up with the information that Lazarus was not dead but burial alive instead?

Not the claim in the bible that is for sure.

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@Intrepid,

The meaning is from the reading of the words as they would have meant to the priests. Meanings for the same words change over time. For example, take the meaning of the word gay now as opposed to 30 years ago. Meanings for the same words also change depending on the reader. For example, pervert in Australia is someone who "perves" at women. In Canada, it is a homosexual.

The priestly class in that time put great store on secret knowledge. They wrote the one story but it has layered meaning. To the peasant, it was a miracle such as was expected by them. To the priests, it was a story of the politics involved. All with the same wording.

When Mary complains he will stink, she means he will be impure because of his excommunication and if touched by Jesus then Jesus will need to follow Jewish law and purify himself afterwards. This will exclude him from social contact with people.

Jewish priests did not stone everyone who transgressed. Many were crippled (not allowed within a certain distance of the temple, usually the bottom of the stairs) or made lepers (untouchable). Some were buried alive for a short time (excommunicated), others till they died.

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@Ionus,

Perhaps you would care to provide a source for this change to the bible. Other than your own words, of course.

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@Intrepid,

Certainly. JESUS THE MAN by Barbara Thiering, Professor of Theology (retired). It is based on accepted historical versions of what priests wrote and meant up to the time of Jesus. She extends that through a study of the Dead Sea Scrolls to include the time of Jesus as well. Nothing unreasonable.

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In any case, gentlemen a universe with an all-knowing all-powerful god that does not used his powers to interfere in any ways with the working of the universe under natural laws and a universe without a god at all would to me be the same thing.

At least the same thing from the stand point of any intelligent beings that happen to be part of that universe.

Only when a god interacts with the universe would any one have any reason to care about that god in my opinion.

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@Ionus,

Fine. But it is not reasonable to pass off the theory of a single theology professor as a bible fact.

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@Ionus,

Sorry Ionus but this claim seem to be a very far reach with no backing other then a somewhat cute reasonings with zero evidences.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Only when a god interacts with the universe would any one have any reason to care about that god in my opinion.

Depends on what you call an interaction. How about a God that is a force, like gravity, but leaves us to our own devices. It can still have created the universe and not clash with science. There could be life after death in your scenario, as it doesnt involve a personal God. So there would be a difference between no God and one that is not personal.

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@Intrepid,

The bible is as written. I am not changing it. I simply say that the meaning generally taken by people is not the meaning it was written with, but that it has a deeper meaning than the obvious.

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@BillRM,

Read the reference above and then tell me that.

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@Ionus,

A blind force of gravity would be the same with or without a god and a god that does not make himself known would not give any reason to draw any conclusion about life after death.

Hell why would you need a god for life after death for that matter if you do not need a god for the universe in the first place?

What the needed connection with the possibility, but to say at the least highly unlikely life after death and any form of a god be that god personal or not?

Why is it so fearful for us not to know one way or another that we are driven to make up illogical fairy tales?

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@Ionus,

The bible is as written. I am not changing it. I simply say that the meaning generally taken by people is not the meaning it was written with, but that it has a deeper meaning than the obvious
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To me all you are doing is taking a book containing interesting fairy tales and trying to do your very best to find some way to change those fairy tales so they make some kind of logical sense.

You changes had no more backing in the real universe that I can see then the fairy tales had to start with and in fact are far less interesting.

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@BillRM,

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A blind force of gravity would be the same with or without a god.

Correct.

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and a god that does not make himself known would not give any reason to draw any conclusion about life after death

What was your expectation ? A parade ? Of course you can draw conclusions about life after death...you dont need a hand written invitation.

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What the needed connection with the possibility, but to say at the least highly unlikely life after death and any form of a god be that god personal or not?

Can you rephrase that ?

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Why is it so fearful for us not to know one way or another that we are driven to make up illogical fairy tales?

Because we are scared of dying. By the way, the historical record (your fairy tales) are very logical.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

To me all you are doing is taking a book containing interesting fairy tales and trying to do your very best to find some way to change those fairy tales so they make some kind of logical sense.

I am not changing a single word.

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@Ionus,

I am not changing a single word.
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Sorry but by changing the meaning of the words you are indeed changing the words.

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Even some scientists give lip service to fairy tales.

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