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Americans accused of brutal 'punishment' tactics in Iraq

 
 
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2003 12:58 am
Thought you folks might be interested in this story too. It has been circulating in the British press for a week but has yet to be mentioned even once by any US media. It has taken 30 years for the Vietnam stories to be told. I wonder if it will take that long for those from Iraq to be heard in the U.S. media.




US soldiers bulldoze farmers' crops
Americans accused of brutal 'punishment' tactics against villagers, while British are condemned as too soft
By Patrick Cockburn in Dhuluaya
12 October 2003

US soldiers driving bulldozers, with jazz blaring from loudspeakers, have uprooted ancient groves of date palms as well as orange and lemon trees in central Iraq as part of a new policy of collective punishment of farmers who do not give information about guerrillas attacking US troops.

The stumps of palm trees, some 70 years old, protrude from the brown earth scoured by the bulldozers beside the road at Dhuluaya, a small town 50 miles north of Baghdad. Local women were yesterday busily bundling together the branches of the uprooted orange and lemon trees and carrying then back to their homes for firewood.

Nusayef Jassim, one of 32 farmers who saw their fruit trees destroyed, said: "They told us that the resistance fighters hide in our farms, but this is not true. They didn't capture anything. They didn't find any weapons."

Other farmers said that US troops had told them, over a loudspeaker in Arabic, that the fruit groves were being bulldozed to punish the farmers for not informing on the resistance which is very active in this Sunni Muslim district.

"They made a sort of joke against us by playing jazz music while they were cutting down the trees," said one man. Ambushes of US troops have taken place around Dhuluaya. But Sheikh Hussein Ali Saleh al-Jabouri, a member of a delegation that went to the nearby US base to ask for compensation for the loss of the fruit trees, said American officers described what had happened as "a punishment of local people because 'you know who is in the resistance and do not tell us'." What the Israelis had done by way of collective punishment of Palestinians was now happening in Iraq, Sheikh Hussein added.

The destruction of the fruit trees took place in the second half of last month but, like much which happens in rural Iraq, word of what occurred has only slowly filtered out. The destruction of crops took place along a kilometre-long stretch of road just after it passes over a bridge.

Farmers say that 50 families lost their livelihoods, but a petition addressed to the coalition forces in Dhuluaya pleading in erratic English for compensation, lists only 32 people. The petition says: "Tens of poor families depend completely on earning their life on these orchards and now they became very poor and have nothing and waiting for hunger and death."

The children of one woman who owned some fruit trees lay down in front of a bulldozer but were dragged away, according to eyewitnesses who did not want to give their names. They said that one American soldier broke down and cried during the operation. When a reporter from the newspaper Iraq Today attempted to take a photograph of the bulldozers at work a soldier grabbed his camera and tried to smash it. The same paper quotes Lt Col Springman, a US commander in the region, as saying: "We asked the farmers several times to stop the attacks, or to tell us who was responsible, but the farmers didn't tell us."

Informing US troops about the identity of their attackers would be extremely dangerous in Iraqi villages, where most people are related and everyone knows each other. The farmers who lost their fruit trees all belong to the Khazraji tribe and are unlikely to give information about fellow tribesmen if they are, in fact, attacking US troops.

Asked how much his lost orchard was worth, Nusayef Jassim said in a distraught voice: "It is as if someone cut off my hands and you asked me how much my hands were worth."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=452375
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Butrflynet
 
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Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2003 12:59 am
This tactic is no different then that of a "Brutal Oppressor" as Saddam was claimed to be. Plowing under crops and fields to destroy livelihoods of a people with very little means to earning an income is an act of Brutality.

It will NOT lead to less terror.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2003 02:45 pm
Winning the Hearts and minds.
These brutalities will further expand the resistance of the Iraqie people to Western Imperialism. Anyone that thinks that the UN will rescue the democratizion of Iraq is delusional.
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 06:59 am
It's amazing that some will read this BS and automatically believe it, yet read anything positive and complain about its veracity...

Truly amazing...
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Setanta
 
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Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 07:17 am
McG, Butrflynet has provided a link to a story in The Independent, so if you are unwilling to believe it because it does not coincide with what you are prepared to believe, how is your position any better than those you have just accused? Unless you are able to refute the story as reported in The Independent, you're whistling in the dark just as much as those you sneer at.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 07:21 am
Yeah, McG, explain that. Please.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 07:24 am
The story is not implausible, but the music is a stretch. There could be army construction people that listen to jazz. I never knew any, but there could be.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 07:25 am
Can you find any note of this travesty ANYWHERE else? Maybe from a less vitriolic source? I would like to see an AP source, or maybe the BBC will pick it up...The Independant is a bit slanted in their views of the US and our affairs in Iraq. This would be like me making a posting from FOXNews... I am sure you would trust that as a sole source for information, right?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 07:31 am
If you provided Fox News (inherent oxymoron) as a source, i wouldn't condemn it out of hand, i'd take it apart piece by piece. My remark is that you accuse others of a knee-jerk reaction, and yours is a knee-jerk reaction as well. I don't really believe that you don't understand the distinction, just that you're trying to sidestep it--because you said something truly stupid, condemning others for doing exactly what you were doing in your condemnation.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 07:48 am
Here
edgarblythe wrote:
The article is too slanted. I didn't read all of it for that reason.


Here
Setanta wrote:
Glad you're not posting tendentious threads, looking for a fight, any more, Perception. It's good to see that you've reformed.


Here
pistoff wrote:
that all the cicitizens of Amerka be issue double strength rose colored glasses, courtesy of the Regime in power. There should be a new Constitutional amendment that no one be allowed to speak anything about Govt. policy unless it is nice and supportive. Rolling Eyes


Here
edgarblythe wrote:
This is horse ****. You will find every stripe of liberal or conservative if you look hard enough. If some liberals have gone bad, what has that to do with the rest of us? Neoconservatism is a blight on humanity regardless of its origins. It is supported by Republicans because true liberals want no part of it.


Here
PDiddie wrote:
You just completely miss the irony, don't you?

We freed Iraq but we clamp down on dissent to the point of censorship?

I suppose al-Jazeera hasn't had the opportunity to develop the same respect for Karl Rove that FOX and Clear Channel have...

And Iraqis don't deserve the privilege of First Amendment rights, at least not if they exercise them in opposition to the POV of the Bush administration.

Now that sounds a bit more like America. At least the America that's devolved in the last three years.


Here
hobitbob wrote:
It also sounds like an initiative that originated in Washington, that will actually increase poverty in Iraq. How many of Iraqis can afford to buy their own industries?


Here
Wilso wrote:
How many innocent men and women were put in their graves by the liberators?

Oh, I forgot the justifiable collateral damage which was necessary to set the nation free.


Should I continue?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 07:51 am
Continue to your heart's content, it won't make the fact that you've accused others of a fault by displaying that same fault in your accusation go away . . .
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 08:21 am
Show me the pictures of this devestation and then I will believe it. You know, like a credible news source would do...
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 08:31 am
I'm not obliged to show you anything, McG, other than your own post, in which you accuse others of a fault which you commit yourself in making the accusation--a circumstance you continue to avoid discussing.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 11:47 am
Setanta wrote:
If you provided Fox News (inherent oxymoron) as a source, i wouldn't condemn it out of hand, i'd take it apart piece by piece. .


This is Setanta hypocracy at it's worst---calling the source an inherent oxymoron but then saying you would attempt to refute it Laughing Laughing Laughing

Regarding your earlier accusation about me "baiting" people----tell me your opinion of all the biased, baiting articles pasted by BBB supposedly in the interest of discussion----one sided discussion is the aim I believe.

How about some more of your blustery sledge hammer rants in response such as those flung at McG just now----you take advantage of the rather loose rules of civil discourse by disposing of someone with your bludgeon and then you recoil with feigned indignation when someone throws it back at you.
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Setanta
 
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Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 12:04 pm
Well, Perception, that's a full load of nonsense there. I rarely read the long cut and paste jobs that BBB does, and often for exactly the reason you give--a lot of it is tendentious material. Check our BBB's posts, you'll rarely find me there. I will assert that you try to bait people, you post straw man arguments and cut and paste jobs of inflamatory political rhetoric all the time. You do it in an attempt to get a rise ouf to people.

What you refer to as "blustery sledge hammer rants" in this case is no rant at all. I'm trying to get McG to discuss one matter alone. McG accused people (without being specific, rather a cowardly way of things) as follows:

McG wrote:
It's amazing that some will read this BS and automatically believe it, yet read anything positive and complain about its veracity...

Truly amazing...


I pointed out that the criticism which McG levels at others applies to McG as well--calling the article BS and automatically disbelieving it is the equivalent of automatically believing it. McG dances around that fact, but doesn't answer it. That's not a rant on my part, and needs no sledge hammer. I have simply continued to ask McG to respond to the statement that his/her criticism entails exactly the same fault it contends.

You're not very good at sneering, Perception, although you love to do it. The force of your sneer is greatly diminished by a seeming inability to read and comprehend what others write.
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 12:15 pm
Setanta wrote:

But Setanta you taught me everything I know regarding sneering. Does that make you a pitiful teacher or could it be you possess the same deficiences---either way you can accept the credit.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 02:33 pm
That's a crock, whether at AFUZZ as Sail Free, or here, you've always indulged in sneering, long before you knew of my existence . . . besides which, had i taught you, i cannot be held responsible for a reading defficiency on your part which impairs your ability to perform.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 03:12 pm
As another thread treads the unhappy journey toward locked-ness.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 03:15 pm
I don't think they're likely to lock it up, Boss, but it certainly gets futile, doesn't it, when the first dissent heard is not an analysis of the piece in question, but a condemnation of other people in the thread . . .
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 03:26 pm
Yup. Sad
0 Replies
 
 

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