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At least seven killed in shooting at Fort Hood, Tex.

 
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 11:30 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
I think he was trying to make a point that even armed soldiers can be killed by crazed gunmen.

Therefore implying that allowing college students to carry guns to class wouldn't necessarily reduce the chances of taking out crazed gunmen on campus (Virginia tech).

Virginia Tech? WTF? I wasn't thinking of that, I was thinking of this thread.

And while you're there, I'm sure you'll take the opportunity to tell OSD that he's a heartless bastard for cynically taking advantage of that tragedy, just as you have done on this thread.

Oh wait, you haven't done that on this thread. My mistake.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 11:36 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

wandeljw wrote:
Joefromchicago's cynical remark merely anticipated the arguments that we are now getting on this thread from OmSigDavid.

Thanks. I'm glad somebody figured it out without having to be told.

Nobody didn't "figure it out" (jeez, what gall) - it wasn't that subtle a point. Its simply a matter of opinion whether or not you are as big an ass as OmSicko by belching out your "ironic" wit when you did. And duly note this, wiseass.
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 11:43 am
interesting the "too soon" comments

does the fact that it's soldiers make it any more tragic than any other loss of life

in my mind a tragedy is a tragedy, none more tragic than the other (some differ in scale obviously)

if america is really a free country, then any topic should be open for discussion and debate (even mockery if that's your thing) from minute one
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 11:45 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

What are we to make of it? Shouldn't we get the whole story before making judgements?


You are to make of it what you will, just as I suggested.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 11:46 am
@snood,
snood wrote:
Nobody didn't "figure it out" (jeez, what gall) - it wasn't that subtle a point.

Well, there was at least one.

snood wrote:
Its simply a matter of opinion whether or not you are as big an ass as OmSicko by belching out your "ironic" wit when you did. And duly note this, wiseass.

Every tragedy is a tragedy to someone. I'm sorry that this one hit particularly close to home for you, but then that doesn't entitle you to a special "irony-free" zone when others comment on that tragedy. If you want a less challenging forum where your feelings won't get hurt, you might want to start here.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 11:49 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

snood wrote:
Nobody didn't "figure it out" (jeez, what gall) - it wasn't that subtle a point.

Well, there was at least one.

snood wrote:
Its simply a matter of opinion whether or not you are as big an ass as OmSicko by belching out your "ironic" wit when you did. And duly note this, wiseass.

Every tragedy is a tragedy to someone. I'm sorry that this one hit particularly close to home for you, but then that doesn't entitle you to a special "irony-free" zone when others comment on that tragedy. If you want a less challenging forum where your feelings won't get hurt, you might want to start here.


I gotcha bigmouth. And your suggestion is duly noted.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 11:54 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

And while you're there, I'm sure you'll take the opportunity to tell OSD that he's a heartless bastard for cynically taking advantage of that tragedy, just as you have done on this thread.


Did you miss the winking smiley face?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 12:17 pm
The AP wrote:
"Soldiers reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" " an Arabic phrase for "God is great!" " before opening fire, said Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the base commander. He said officials had not yet confirmed that Hasan made the comment."


The AP wrote:
"But his record at Walter Reed wasn't sterling. He received a poor performance evaluation, according to an official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly. And while he was an intern, Hasan had some "difficulties" that required counseling and extra supervision, said Dr. Thomas Grieger, who was the training director at the time.

Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Md., said "I got the impression that he was a committed soldier." He said Hasan attended prayers regularly at the mosque in Silver Spring, Md., and was a lifelong Muslim. He spoke often with Hasan about Hasan's desire for a wife.

In an interview with The Washington Post, Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, Va., said he had been harassed about being a Muslim in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, and he wanted out of the Army.

"Some people can take it and some people cannot," she said. "He had listened to all of that and he wanted out of the military."

At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

Investigators had not determined for certain whether Hasan was the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case."


I have heard/read that he wanted out of the military since 9/11. Unless the army has terms of service greater than six years, it wouldn't seem that he wanted out all that badly.

It certainly seems unlikely that Major Hasan was part of an Islamist sleeper cell, but it also seems unlikely that his being a Muslim is merely a coincidence.

I don't know what this tells us and I don't know if there is any action or approach that can or should be taken, but it will be ridiculous if the questions that arise cannot be considered because of PC sensibilties.

There's no way of confirming it, but my bet is that upon first hearing this story a vast majority of people thought about the gunmen (as it was being reported at the time) being Muslims. The thought might have been, "I bet these guys are Muslims," or "I hope these guys are not Muslims," or even "The first thing everyone else is going to think about is whether or not they are Muslims," but it is unrealistic to think otherwise.

How many Muslims are there in the US military, but how shocked were you to learn the shooter was one?

Again, I don't know what the fact that he is a Muslim really means, but I believe it means something much more significant than some other piece of biographical data, like he was born in Virginia or that he was a psychiatrist.

BTW - Although I think Chicago Joe's comment was essentially pointless, I don't think he was mocking the tragedy in general or the victims in particular.







aidan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 12:26 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
Every tragedy is a tragedy to someone. I'm sorry that this one hit particularly close to home for you, but then that doesn't entitle you to a special "irony-free" zone when others comment on that tragedy.


This tragedy is a tragedy to everyone (in America ). It's a tragedy that we're in this war and that another generation of our young people are being sacrificed on the altar of WHAT and to WHAT? I get sadder about it everyday.
And then after reading about this incident on the internet this morning - on my way to work I bought the Times (London), and I'm greeted with the front page on which there's a montage of all the pictures of the people who've been killed in Afghanistan with their names and ages and the average age is like 24 (as far as I could work out in my head) before I just couldn't stand to look at it anymore.

And then you have these people who are willing to sacrifice their lives in service to their country and they get murdered by a ******* DOCTOR on their base!

I'm not a soldier and I don't even live in America anymore, and the irony to me is not that they're soldiers and didn't have guns - the irony is that they apparently were no safer on American soil than they would have been in Afghanistan or Iraq.

This goes way beyond partisan politics.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  3  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 12:32 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
There's no way of confirming it, but my bet is that upon first hearing this story a vast majority of people thought about the gunmen (as it was being reported at the time) being Muslims. The thought might have been, "I bet these guys are Muslims," or "I hope these guys are not Muslims," or even "The first thing everyone else is going to think about is whether or not they are Muslims," but it is unrealistic to think otherwise.


Actually, my first thoughts on it was to wonder if this was an attack by a bunch of the Texas teabagger/secessionists that Rick Perry and others have been trying to whip into a froth.

0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 12:38 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Man, I was thinking, jesus ******* christ, I hope the shooter ain't a navajo, seems like every time a navajo gets just a little bit stenkin' drunk and starts shooting up the place people immediately blame the entire navajo nation.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 01:10 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
His being Muslim was not at the forefront of my thought. Also, I did not think about Timothy McVeigh or Texas secessionists.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 01:23 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Sounds like a classic nutjob, to me.

He didn't kill folks out of conviction, he killed folks because he was disaffected. Part of that disaffection may have been due to religious persecution, which you are attempting to perpetuate here.

Don't like Muslims? Fine. Go not like Muslims and hang out with the folks who don't like Muslims, or blacks, or Mexicans, or Catholics.

But don't try to make this about Islam, 'cause it just won't fly.

I imagine the guy had two hands, two feet, and a penis. Maybe we need to lock up everyone who matches that description. Then you'll be the only "guy" walking around free....
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 02:47 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
whether the soldiers are free to bear arms or not has depended upon their orders.

Quote:
Er... Newsflash: Soldiers aren't free.
If u r an Austrailian, then I cannot and shoud not expect u to understand American law,
but the Army is not free to violate the Constitution;
e.g., it cannot force someone to go to Church against his will,
nor make a soldier incriminate himself, etc.
I will add that, for what its worth, I am confident
that when Army officers swear to uphold the Constitution
and to defend it from all enemies, foreign & domestic,
thay r not hypocrits; at that point in time, thay really mean it.




OmSigDAVID wrote:

This was an exception, brought on by the helplessness of the UNARMED victims.

Quote:
No, this was brought on by a nut who started shooting people.
Unarmed people, kinda by definition, are unable to "bring on" shootings.
Obviously, when someone decides to become a murderer,
he will ARM himself with any weapons of his choice.
Its IMPOSSIBLE to prevent murderers from arming themselves,
except by killing them beforehand, or doing it Julius Caesar 's
way of disarming them, by ax or by sword.

I suspect that smarts.





David
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 02:56 pm
OmSigDavid wrote:
If u r an Austrailian, then I cannot and shoud not expect u to understand American law,


DrewDad is one of the most respected Aussies on this forum. His enthusiasm for learning American law has won the respect of joefromchicago and DebraLaw.
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 03:05 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:
DrewDad is one of the most respected Aussies on this forum ...

Yes, but not THE most respected. That, unquestionably, is Wilso.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 03:14 pm
@Ticomaya,
Of them, drewdad is the only one boxes kangaroos.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 03:21 pm
i think you'll all find that DadPad (actually it might be hingehead in my book) is the most respected australian, at least male, dlowan, msolga and margo are in a 3 way tie for female

and unless DrewDad has recently emigrated, i think he's still a yankee
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 03:28 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

His being Muslim was not at the forefront of my thought. Also, I did not think about Timothy McVeigh or Texas secessionists.


edgar, I would never suggest that you, dys, Butrflynet, and DrewDad are part of the vast majority of people.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Nov, 2009 03:30 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
i figured he was a chinese hermaphrodite the minute i heard the story

i now gather that might not be true
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Another Fort Hood Shooting - Discussion by edgarblythe
Another Fort Hood Terror Plot Thwarted? - Discussion by tsarstepan
Ft Hood development - Discussion by dyslexia
 
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