3 Sex offenders at the same address ???

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
Not all of the offenses were rape.

Quote:
Were any as trivial as pinching someone's bottom?
I believe so, yes.
I am under the impression that there are many lists
in lots of jurisdictions with their own ideosyncratic criteria.
I 've heard that children who 've said: "I 'll show u mine, if u 'll show me yours"
or one child kissing another one in school, have ended up together on the lists,
but I am no expert on these lists.
Maybe u can confirm or disprove that by sufficient Googling.

Quote:
Minimizing the impact of sex crimes doesn't improve your argument;
it weakens your argument because it's hard to take you seriously.
The facts are whatever thay are
regardless of how u take my argument.
I 'm not trying to convince u of how to vote on anything.

Quote:
Did you miss the part where I agreed that only focusing on sex crimes is silly?
No, but that does not have the effect of cloture upon me.

`

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I am under the impression that there are many lists
in lots of jurisdictions with their own ideosyncratic criteria.
I 've heard that children who 've said: "I 'll show u mine, if u 'll show me yours"
or one child kissing another one in school, have ended up together on the lists,
but I am no expert on these lists.
Maybe u can confirm or disprove that by sufficient Googling.

That's your rumor to prove, not mine to disprove. I have a hard time taking any argument seriously when the basis for it is "I've heard".

I've heard that criminals hide under cars waiting to hamstring people. Doesn't make it true, though.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
I am under the impression that there are many lists
in lots of jurisdictions with their own ideosyncratic criteria.
I 've heard that children who 've said: "I 'll show u mine, if u 'll show me yours"
or one child kissing another one in school, have ended up together on the lists,
but I am no expert on these lists.
Maybe u can confirm or disprove that by sufficient Googling.

Quote:
That's your rumor to prove, not mine to disprove.
I have a hard time taking any argument seriously when the basis for it is "I've heard".
Its not worth my while.
More than likely its not worth yours either.

Quote:
I've heard that criminals hide under cars waiting to hamstring people. Doesn't make it true, though.
I 've heard THAT from the NY Police.
The moral of the story is: have your gun where u can get to it quickly.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Too bad you're that gullible.

See: The Lurker Beneath the Cars

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Too bad you're that gullible.

See: The Lurker Beneath the Cars

DrewDad, upon checking your link, I found the practice mentioned, but not denied.
It merely asserted that u shoud:
"never assume that your precautions are enough,
or your mall parking lot safe enough! Even in broad daylight,
with people aplenty about, urban legends can still remind us
how vulnerable we appear to the serious predator."

It does not allege that the Police were incorrect
in warning the populace of this danger, nor does it say
that: "Too bad you're that gullible."

I remain perplexed as to Y u told me this, DrewDad ????

0 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

Yep, that's what I thought, and I agree.

Other examples are where parents let the kid do whatever they want, or are so horrified they cannot handle their own feelings, much less help the kid with theirs.

1 Reply

@aidan,

aidan wrote:

what would they say about parents who looked at everyone in their chilren's lives with suspicion?

at least they'd be keeping a closer eye on the people who are most likely to be dangerous to their children.

2 Replies

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

aidan wrote:
what would they say about parents who looked at everyone in their chilren's lives with suspicion?

at least they'd be keeping a closer eye on the people who are most likely to be dangerous to their children.

But there, indeed, is the rub.

And what makes all of this so ferking complicated.

Who, indeed, wants to go around being suspicious the hell of everyone?

Some teachers and child care workers now feel afraid of giving little kids a hug when they are hurt or distressed.

Some people don't WANT male little kid teachers or child care workers, robbing kids who don't have a decent male role model in their lives of a great opportunity.

It's a damn fine balance between letting your kid feel confident, with reasonable precaution and protecting them within reason.

Fact is, you CAN'T protect your kids beyond a certain degree.

Not just from sexual predators, but from death and injury and terminal illness and all the other things that sexual abuse often takes focus from.

And, the thing also is that the better your own boundaries and your ability to sense when boundaries are being breached by daddy or dear old Uncle Bill, or the lovely new partner you have, or the Girl Guides leader, the better you will be able to protect your kids.

Parents abused themselves tend to be bad at this detection (that is a general rule....lots of people don't follow it, of course, and many abused people are fantastic parents) and their kids are all too often easy targets, because they don't sense the boundary breaches that grooming entails.

And it's kind of hard to teach that stuff....but it's likely something that would be a good thing to do in a primary prevention model.

2 Replies

@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

Some people don't WANT male little kid teachers or child care workers, robbing kids who don't have a decent male role model in their lives of a great opportunity.

I blame a fair bit of that on all the STRANGER DANGER shouting/teaching that really started about 20 - 30 years ago. Don't worry about teaching your kids to be wary of strangers - don't be wary of strangers yourself - teach your kids to respect themselves in all situations - and teach them to expect to be treated with respect ... enough with the freaking STRANGER DANGER !!! it's still being taught in some schools here now ... it's infuriating. It's still more likely to be Uncle Bill or Aunt Thea that's the problem than some mysterious scary stranger with a big wart on their face.

Focus on developing the strengths of the kid, don't focus on the "other".

2 Replies

@ehBeth,

Quote:

Focus on developing the strengths of the kid, don't focus on the "other".

Particularly their willingness to speak up when someone is doing something that makes them feel violated, not just to the person doing it but also other people who are close to them. If little Suzy has a habit of running her mouth anyone who knows her will think twice about messing with her, and if someone else does it can be stopped fast.

We keep trying to zero out the risk, which can not be done and it gets costly on the quality of life scale. If we teach the right life skills to kids it will bring value to them for their whole lives, and will help to keep them safe as children as well. A complete rethink of how we raise kids is called for. What we do now does not work, kids tend to decide at a pretty early age that most adults are nuts, and they are right

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

I don't think a 100% re-think of all parenting is required, but I agree with most of your post before that.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

rethink...our job is to produce fine adults, keeping kids safe works towards that only to a point.

Go ahead, ask 10 parents if there is anything more important in parenting than keeping kids safe. I know what the answer will be.

a RETHINK is required.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Of course kids should be safe. Kids shouldn't be able to drink cleaning fluid. Kids shouldn't be able to electrocute themselves. Kids shouldn't be left alone around water. Kids should be kept safe from sexual predators.

Kids should be encouraged to run and jump and play and take appropriate risks, and where the consequences are within what they are able to deal with.

They should be tested, but not be tested to destruction.

2 Replies

@DrewDad,

Quote:

Kids should be kept safe from sexual predators

Your premise assumes that kids can be kept save from sexual predators, they can not, all we can do is limit the risks. Each thing that we do in that regard also has some cost, so the more we do to limit the risk the more it costs us. What are we willing to pay.... getting rid of childhood? Raising kids in a climate of fear? Shredding the constitutional rights of those whom we think are a risk thus shredding the constitution for all?? Them are some high costs, and not worth paying to chase your delusion of child safety.

We should take appropriate steps to limit risks, and we should not only work to keep kids and predators separated as we do now but also should work for a more permanent solution of keeping predators from forming.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Of course kids should be safe. Kids shouldn't be able to drink cleaning fluid.
Kids shouldn't be able to electrocute themselves.
Kids shouldn't be left alone around water.
Kids should be kept safe from sexual predators.

It was with some of these considerations in mind
(not including the cleaning fluid -- I was never tempted)
that from the age of 8 on up I carried at least one .38 caliber
Smith & Wesson Model 36 Revolver, until some years later,
I upgraded to a .44, after the stopping power of .38s was impugned.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

It was with some of these considerations in mind
(not including the cleaning fluid -- I was never tempted)
that from the age of 8 on up I carried at least one .38 caliber
Smith & Wesson Model 36 Revolver, until some years later,
I upgraded to a .44, after the stopping power of .38s was impugned

I was never tempted by cleaning fluid either. My thing was the flintstone vitamins up in the cabinet out of my reach. Every time my mom would head out to the garden, I'd climb up on a stool and grab a few- she only ever let me have one at a time.
David - were you taught to be suspicious and wary of everyone or were you just naturally suspicious and wary of everyone to the point you felt you needed to carry protection on your person at all times?

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Your premise assumes that kids can be kept save from sexual predators, they can not, all we can do is limit the risks.

Yep.

Quote:

Each thing that we do in that regard also has some cost, so the more we do to limit the risk the more it costs us. What are we willing to pay.... getting rid of childhood? Raising kids in a climate of fear?

Hawkeye, I know you have your own children because you've said you have, but how much time do you spend with children other than your own? Because I've spent a lot of time with all sorts of children in all sorts of settings from schools to churches to girl/boyscout troops to bands, to outdoor clubs, whatever - kids are pretty much who I've always spent my time with- even before I had my own, but especially since- and I just don't see this picture emerging of terrified kids losing their childhood and fearfully looking around every corner for a bad adult who will hurt them.
Most kids I meet are happy-g0-lucky carefree children- they still ride their bikes, they still walk to their friends' houses, they still walk adult free to and from school, etc- they talk about their favorite colors and foods and bands - they don't talk about their fears of being sexually abused or abducted.

I think people who don't spend a lot of time with kids in their everyday lives are swallowing this line that there's a huge, horrible amount of hysteria- that parents and children are living in fear- and the reality is that that just is not the case.

I know this subject has NEVER come up in my day to day discussions with my childrens' friends' parents- not once.

Quote:

We should take appropriate steps to limit risks, and we should not only work to keep kids and predators separated as we do now but also should work for a more permanent solution of keeping predators from forming.

This is true.

1 Reply

@aidan,

Well, it comes up in the discussions of my friends with kids who don't work in the areas I do.....they're not the hysterical types, so they aren't hysterical...but they certainly talk about it.

Likely your friends are sensible sorts, so they don't get hysterical either.

But if, goddess forbid, you listen to talk-back radio of the less intelligent sort, or have to attend public meetings, you hear it.

Actually, often kids are way more fearful of things than they let on, too. It's amazing when you start to talk to kids about their fears, there is a big list....things like burglary, earthquake/other natural disaster, lots of kids have fears of being abducted and murdered and suchlike. Parents generally listen aghast when they hear the stuff their kids worry about, that they haven't mentioned.

And most parents DO, really, focus on the stranger danger stuff,

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@ehBeth,

I think this is related to what we were talking about on another thread too -- I consider the idea that NOT all elders should be respected to be part of this kind of education. Some should, some shouldn't, but it depends on what they do and not just the fact that they're an adult.

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@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

Yep, that's what I thought, and I agree.

Quote:
Other examples are where parents let the kid do whatever they want,
Speaking as an ex-kid who grew up in libertarian surroundings,
n loved the freedom, I 'll take exception to that.

Quote:
or are so horrified they cannot handle their own feelings,
much less help the kid with theirs.
I imagine that thay shoud take him to a psychiatrist,
if he has sufficient trouble with his feelings.

David

0 Replies

3 Sex offenders at the same address ???

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