8
   

Torture porn tarted up in a lab coat?

 
 
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 09:20 am
I love TV but I don't get to watch much of it, outside of a few family friendly shows I'm pretty oblivious to what's on, so I could be way off base. Torture porn is probably too strong a term for this but anyway.....

I've had this idea tickling around in my head for a few days. It started with an article in the paper about women being a huge part of the horror film market. which surprised me, even though I enjoy a good horror film myself now and then. The article was written from a sort of feminist perspective, discussing the idea of "the last girl" (the good, smart girl who gets away at the end).

At the time I was reading the book "The Ruins". In the book the characters talk about when they get resuced and they make a movie of the story, how will it be fictionalized: who will be "the last girl", etc.

Then I volunteered to help Mo's teacher with a project. It was a boring, repititous, very time consuming project. I threw everything in a box, carted it home, plunked down in front of the TV, and started channel flipping.

It seems that daytime TV features mostly crime solving shows, both true stories and fiction stories. I couldn't help but notice how bloody and graphic these shows were -- hacked up bodies everywhere. The difference was that the people doing the hacking were scientists instead of madmen -- the good guys and not the bad guys.

To me, it all seemed like soft-core torture porn.

What do you think?
 
mismi
 
  3  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 09:28 am
@boomerang,
There may be something to that Boomer...you will also notice that the ones who are killed usually have tight little bodies when women are the victims. You don't see a half naked, over weight woman with granny panties and cellulite everywhere.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 09:47 am
@mismi,
Interesting!

I haven't seen enough of these kind of shows to know who the typical victim is.
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 09:52 am
@boomerang,
I do...I got hooked on CSI LasVegas when it first came out...maybe every once in a while you would get an average looking person...I am trying to go back in the memory banks...eh...that's a waste of time this morning. My impressions of what I have seen seems to gleen that info.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 09:56 am
@mismi,
common enough on House, I never miss an episode of House.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 10:10 am
@boomerang,
I can't speak re tv as I haven't watched it steadily since the late eighties. I can speak to police procedural "mysteries" in the book market. I've read a daunting number of them and learned quite a while ago to avoid most "best sellers". I see them as a group, if not each individual book, worked around pulsing, that is, a thrill set in every (x) number of pages. Some of those have to do with the descriptions of what terrible thing is happening or did happen to women or children, and some of it has to do with the autopsy process.. I'm ok with reading in "lesser sellers" about the original crime as a set up for the detection and psychologizing but not what I take as a general fear feed or gore display.

I'll contrast these pulsers with a couple of books I read lately that weren't police procedurals - one by Christopher Hibbert on the Medici family history, and one by the nineteenth century writer Jacob Burckhardt on the age of Constantine, which covers the roman empire from the time of Trajan to and into the fourth century. Both have a lot of mentions of murders and some of torture, but both are reporting in matter of fact tone. It's not at all titillating, just reportage, with absence of gore.

So, I take your point, I can see there would be a "crime porn" aspect to the popular tv horror stuff, and I suppose to similar movies. As I type that I think, duh, that's obvious.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 10:14 am
I don't watch shows about Doctors, Lawyers or Police.

All that's been on TV since I was a kid, are shows about Doctors, Lawyers or Police. I'm sick of their plotlines, I don't give a **** whether people live or die any more on the shows, the illnesses bore me.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 11:10 am
I read somewhere... can't remember, the article compared actual murder rates to what happens in tv shows.
The reality is so very far from hollywood and so the exotic becomes everyday.

The fascination with the fictitious, gruesome murders of beautiful white women far outshines the truth in the N. America, can't speak for other places, but generally the poorer, the more you appear to be a minority and with double x's in your genes, the more likely you will be a murder stat... but not on tv.

Case in point, the last rare murder of a pretty white girl is still making the rounds. The vegas show girl, whose murderer hung himself weeks ago, is still gracing gossip shows, ads, and magazines. The fear has been replaced with fascination, we can't get enough, one story won't do it, so we rehash it over and over again...
Kinda sick, I agree it is porn. But for who? aspiring wanna be's.
Sometimes when I watch these shows, it scares me what they are teaching people, it's almost as if some of these shows are training manuals.
I remember reading another article, it compiled the number of curb stomping assaults that happened after a popular movie featured it in a fight scene. From out of now where, all of a sudden it was everywhere.

mismi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 11:14 am
@Ceili,
I've thought about that many times Ceili. I think some of these shows plant ideas in the minds of the wackos...but just like anything...you can take that idea too far. I think wackos are wackos and will find a way to do whatever the voices in their heads are telling them to.

But murder on TV though gory sometimes...is still made to be attractive as a whole.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 12:12 pm
@ossobuco,
"Pulser" and "crime porn" are two words I'll be adding to my vocabulary, osso. Those seem to sum it up so well.

You're absolutely right about the books. The investigation/autopsy really delights in dishing out the gory details. The diffence is you're "watching" along with the good guy instead of the bad guy -- still you inevitably have to "visit" the bad guy as the good guy tries to understand his motivation.

It's the gore without the guilt of straight up horror.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 12:19 pm
@Ceili,
Oh yes, white women/girls in peril is definately the entertainment trend of this century, and the last, and probably the one before that.

I recall seeing a parody (The Onion?) about Glamour Shots photography studios offering pictures to minority women so that when they were killed or went missing the media might pay attention to them.

Sad, but true.

I think there have been a few instances of "copycat" murders from things on TV or in the movies. On the whole though, I think the people who watch the shows would never ever ever in a million years do such a thing. I think a lot of it serves to help people feel safe - - in a "that could never happen to me" sort of way.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 01:49 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

I love TV but I don't get to watch much of it, outside of a few family friendly shows I'm pretty oblivious to what's on, so I could be way off base. Torture porn is probably too strong a term for this but anyway.....

I've had this idea tickling around in my head for a few days. It started with an article in the paper about women being a huge part of the horror film market. which surprised me, even though I enjoy a good horror film myself now and then. The article was written from a sort of feminist perspective, discussing the idea of "the last girl" (the good, smart girl who gets away at the end).

At the time I was reading the book "The Ruins". In the book the characters talk about when they get resuced and they make a movie of the story, how will it be fictionalized: who will be "the last girl", etc.

Then I volunteered to help Mo's teacher with a project. It was a boring, repititous, very time consuming project. I threw everything in a box, carted it home, plunked down in front of the TV, and started channel flipping.

It seems that daytime TV features mostly crime solving shows, both true stories and fiction stories. I couldn't help but notice how bloody and graphic these shows were -- hacked up bodies everywhere. The difference was that the people doing the hacking were scientists instead of madmen -- the good guys and not the bad guys.

To me, it all seemed like soft-core torture porn.

What do you think?

I have a few comments, unrelated to one another:

1. Forgive me for having a one-track mind, but I gotta say:
all my life, when I have seen innocent victims fall prey to a horrible Bad Guy in the movies,
or in later years: on TV, I have been very, very keenly aware that this show displayed
a contest of power between the represented forces of Good and evil.
I was hoping for the the Good Guys (the word "Guys" -- as applied -- includes both sexes) to win.

In these contests of power, possession of the necessary gear to control the emergency
was vitally (vitally = necessary to life) necessary. I was hoping that the pretty girl 'd pull out
a .44 revolver loaded with hollowpointed slugs with W - I - D - E cavities and open up on the bad guy.
A few rounds in the lower intestine 'd slow him down. (Don 't u think ?)
I wished that I coud offer to let her borrow mine. I consoled myself:
"that's the price thay pay for walking around unarmed."
(In earlier years, I did not have a .44; only .38s)

2. In my earlier years, while watching the cowboy movies of the 1930s, I felt a sense of alarm
when I saw the good guys shot off of their horses, tho thay obviously were not slaughtering actors
to make the movie. It grossed me out. The concept of "death" grossed me out, and invested me
with emotional distress. At the time, I did not think of death as "molting" as I do now.

When my grandmother died (when I was 6) and her remains were removed from her home
in my presence, I fled the area in fear and shouted to the police: "don 't bring her in here."
To my mind, cadavers were anathema; the very sight thereof was dreadful.
That abhorence wore off in adulthood, tho some adults have told me that thay still feel that way.

In recent years, I have seen TV shows wherein simulated cadavers
cadavers r disassembled in front of the audience; I coud not help but
think that in my early childhood I 'd have been extremely grossed out
and distressed by that; I wondered whether there were other kids
who were alarmed by such demonstrations?

How does Mo feel about that, Boomer ?

About 25 years ago, I was asked to adopt a beautiful dog named Milke.
He was owned by 2 boys who were about 6 and 8 years old, one of whom
spoke of believing or suspecting that the dog 's brother was dead and whose
mortal remains were somewhere in high grass, but that he was afraid (in his own words)
to look to ascertain whether that was the case. I related to that; I remembered that old feeling.

U raise an interesting topic, Boomer.

I gotta run; I ' m hosting a Mensa dinner in Manhattan and I wanna be early.

As a better man than I once said: " I shall return. "




David
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 02:01 pm
Once again, an idiotic post which inferentially assumes that the mere possession of a firearm will enable the possessor to use it promptly and appropriately in an emergency. The stupidity just keeps on coming with the gun nut crowd.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 04:52 pm
@Ceili,
Apparently (heard it in a radio show discussing a book about the issue, so I cannot attest to the quality of the research) violence goes up as soon as a country has wide access to TV.

That being said, humans appear to crave a certain amount of violence and gore....or at least a certain amount of adrenaline...and perhaps TV has replaced (at least to some extent) horrors like the coliseum, public executions, bear and bull baiting etc.

I agree that these shows can be a sort of porn for those who don't want to look at porn.

Shows like CSI that purport to show forensics piss the hell out of me for another reason.

Their depictions of what is possible are utterly absurd....but people believe them, and they are starting to affect juries, if the prosecution here can be believed, in that they expect that all sorts of forensic magic will be presented to them, and think a perpetrator is innocent when it is not.

Certainly one runs across people who ought to know better believing that a forensic examination of a sexually abused child, for instance, is going to produce forensic certainties that are impossible in nature.

ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 05:29 pm
@dlowan,
I agree with Dlowan on that, from what I've read by prosecutors.

A note - I didn't mean I don't still like/read some police (law, etc.) procedurals, more that I usually avoid the best seller (pulse, pulse) writers.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 05:35 pm
@dlowan,
Quote:
humans appear to crave a certain amount of violence and gore....or at least a certain amount of adrenaline...and perhaps TV has replaced (at least to some extent) horrors like the coliseum, public executions, bear and bull baiting etc.


VERY interesting!

I think a couple of the shows I saw a piece of the other day were CSIs . It was pretty interesting but just absolutely insanely graphic. You weren't looking through the eyes of the good guy or bad guy -- you were the weapon! I'd never seen anything like it.

That said, I admit I like horror films, though I prefer the suspensful ones to the slice and dice variety, but even the suspenseful ones have quite a bit of gore.

This is really the first time I've ever noticed how really similar both forms of "entertainment" are.

It's all very strange.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 05:44 pm
That's creepy about jurys thinking TV is fact.

I haven't seen enough of these shows to have an opinion of the "science" they show, and I don't know that much about this kind of science anyway but I did note that the visual style of the shows were very similar to many Discovery channel documentaries during the "sciency" parts of the show.

I don't know which came first though, visually speaking.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 05:50 pm
one woman's violence is another woman's All Star Wrestling. I watch Family Guy.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 06:04 pm
Here's the article from the NYT that sparked my internal debate:

Quote:
Long before the first big-screen vivisection of a female breast, novelist H.P. Lovecraft wrote that horror was "supposed to be against the world, against life, against civilization." But the delight that the genre's filmmakers, especially those behind the "Saw" franchise and its torture porn kin, take in depicting a steady stream of starlets being strung up, nailed down or splayed open, makes it clear that modern horror is against some more than others.

And yet recent box office receipts show that women have an even bigger appetite for these films than men. Theories straining to address this particular head scratcher have their work cut out for them: Are female fans of "Saw" ironists? Masochists? Or just dying to get closer to their dates?

"Jennifer's Body" (coming to theaters Friday) " a high school retro-horror romp written by Diablo Cody, directed by Karyn Kusama ("Girlfight") and starring Megan Fox as a satanically possessed sex bomb who literally feeds on boys " offers another, more reassuring explanation for the draw: Audiences love a woman who can take back the knife.

Cody, 31, whose Academy Award-winning screenplay for "Juno" featured a distinctive female voice, says she gravitated toward horror as a girl because she could see herself represented on screen. "When I watched movies like 'The Goonies' and 'E.T.,' it was boys having adventures," she says. "When I watched 'Nightmare on Elm Street,' it was Nancy beating" up Freddy. "It was that simple."

More comfortable watching a woman in peril than a man, young, male viewers " initially slasher movies' core audience " get the best of both worlds, identifying first with the predator and then with the would-be prey. That women also identify with the scrappy heroine is something of a happy accident.

"Jennifer's Body" was designed with both feminists and 15-year-old boys in mind, a seemingly eccentric blueprint that, as Kusama points out, is in line with the best movies of the slasher tradition. "It may be one of the best ways for a young male audience to experience a female story without feeling like they have been limited by a female perspective," she says.

Here that perspective is doubled, with Jennifer and her innocuous shadow, Needy (Amanda Seyfried). The story of the girls' tormented, toxic relationship is set off by various depictions of Fox " a combination of brain-locking beauty and recombinant evil " rummaging through some poor guy's torso. Between Needy's cautious yearning and Jennifer's pure, trampling id, the film presents a portrait of female identity in flux.

It was an effort that often bedeviled Cody and Kusama, who tried to balance brute violence and lesbian kisses with the film's more substantial metaphors. "The tricky thing is if you're going to subvert those tropes, they have to be there," says Cody, whose script is a self-described "crazy, chaotic homage" to the horror films of her youth. "Karyn and I talk about the film as a kind of Trojan horse. We wanted to package our beliefs in a way that's appealing to a mainstream audience."

That audience is not known for its flexibility: The bulletproof formula of screams, skin and death, pioneered when Janet Leigh and half her blood supply went sliding down the Bates Motel's shower wall in "Psycho," took hold because it's easy, and it works. Horror films have adapted with Darwinian fortitude over the years, allegorizing everything from cold war paranoia and eco-anxiety to the breakdown of families. And yet the success of slasher movies, which exploded with films like "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" in 1974 and came to dominate what we now think of as scary movies, might have stalled cinema's most resilient genre.

For the most part, except for a few breakouts like "Shaun of the Dead" (and remakes of still-vital foreign horror films), mainstream American horror has become, like pornography, mainly a cinema of graphic escalation. Though often associated with exploitative fare, director Rob Zombie, whose recent release, "Halloween II," revamps another 1970s proto-slasher, says the genre's indulgence has been its undoing.

"The '80s are the decade that ruined everything for everybody," he says. "The soul went away, and it became gore for the sake of gore, and kids were cheering at killings and yelling and screaming. It became a roller-coaster ride. And of course once something becomes a roller coaster, all you can do is build a bigger, more extreme roller coaster. That's where I think horror movies really got perverted."

One feminist who would agree is novelist Rita Mae Brown, who wrote a slasher sendup called "The Slumber Party Massacre" (1982). "Horror films are one of the last places where women will make progress," she says, "because they go to the root of adolescence."

Cody's attempt at subversion led to pressure simply to tow the slasher line. "That temptation was there," Cody says. "I think there were some people involved who would have liked to have made a straight horror film." Ultimately, however, Cody's script prevailed intact. She says, "Some of us ... like to be scared; we like to have visceral reaction in the theater. Maybe I'm starved for adrenaline, but for me watching a horror movie is very pleasurable. So making one was kind of a dream."


0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 03:58 am

I enjoy watching Bones n particularly watching Emily Deschanel.
Obviously, thay r not using real cadavers, but in my early years,
I 'd have been badly grossed out by the simulated corpses that thay show @ show.
This is true all the more so because thay appear to be so authentic.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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