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Anyone remember a place called Afghanistan?

 
 
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2003 07:22 pm
America's Forgotten War
Quote:
Taliban Kill Eight Policemen in Afghan Attack
Sun October 12, 2003 09:37 AM ET
KABUL (Reuters) - Up to 100 Afghan Taliban guerrillas attacked a district office in the volatile southern province of Zabul early Sunday, killing eight policemen and wounding two others, a local official said.

The latest attack by a resurgent guerrilla movement occurred in Zabul's Arghandab district shortly before 2 a.m., district officer Haji Qudratullah told Reuters.

He said up to 100 Taliban fighters were involved, who burned down the district office and destroyed four vehicles.

Qudratullah said he had no figure for Taliban casualties, though he had heard that some of the attackers had been killed.

"People said they took dead bodies with them," he said. Government forces had reoccupied the area after dawn.

The attack was just the latest in a series by the Taliban movement, ousted from government by U.S.-led forces in late 2001 for sheltering the al Qaeda network blamed for Sept. 11 attacks on the United States that year.

The period since the start of August has been the bloodiest in Afghanistan since the fall of the Taliban, with more than 300 people killed, many of them in guerrilla attacks.

The dead have included Afghan aid workers, government soldiers, policemen and U.S. troops from the 11,500-strong U.S.-led force still searching for Taliban remnants and al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

U.S. SOLDIER SLIGHTLY WOUNDED

Sunday's attack follows an audacious escape by 41 Taliban prisoners from the main jail in Kandahar province, Zabul's neighbor.

Among the escapees was Mawlavi Abdullah, brother of former Taliban defense minister Obaidullah, and a commander named Aziz Agham who officials say mounted a number of guerrilla attacks in the months before his capture earlier this year.

Afghan and U.S. forces pursuing Islamic militants accuse neighboring Pakistan, the main backer of the Taliban until the September 11 attacks, of providing sanctuary for the guerrillas and allowing them to slip across the border to mount attacks.

But Pakistan says recent operations it has launched against militants in its tribal borderlands are proof of its commitment to the "war on terror."

In another incident involving suspected militants, a soldier from the U.S.-led force was slightly hurt in a gunbattle on the outskirts of Kabul Saturday night.

Let me guess, no Oil, no interest?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 823 • Replies: 13
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2003 07:29 pm
There's a pipeline through Afganistan. We're not hanging in there for humanitarian purposes, hobitbob.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2003 07:45 pm
I always come back to this. There's not a lot of space in the news media devoted to Afghanistan...... Little clips burried deep in the paper telling about the latest casualties. I'm sure there's still lots we're not hearing about.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2003 07:47 pm
We are slowly descending into the same mess the Russians were in, in the 80's.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2003 08:02 pm
Acquiunk wrote:
We are slowly descending into the same mess the Russians were in, in the 80's.

And that brought down an entire system of government.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2003 10:56 pm
They're too damn busy talking about future countries they want to attack.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2003 11:43 pm
I really don't hope that Acquiunk's answer is correct ... but it definately looks like it.


Shoesharper, btw, started a similar question two weeks ago here:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13121&highlight=
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2003 03:37 am
hobitbob wrote:
Acquiunk wrote:
We are slowly descending into the same mess the Russians were in, in the 80's.

And that brought down an entire system of government.


Hopefully, this will just bring down the Republican party.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2003 04:19 am
Right-o, Wilso. We can but hope that Iraq and Afganistan will have the same effect on Geo. Bush as Vietnam did on LBJohnson. One term and out!
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2003 11:12 pm
Acquiunk wrote:
We are slowly descending into the same mess the Russians were in, in the 80's.


We will not allow ourselves to become that involved.

The continuing conflict in Afghanistan is only further proof that this blind American belief that democracy is the worlds cure-all is wrong. We seem to think that we can walce in, replace the government by force, and lay down the foundations of a mini-America. Because, after all, there is a SUV driving, church going America hiding inside every Afghan.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2003 11:16 pm
I don't know that "we" see "democracy"as the cure for the world's ills as much as some nostalgic 1950s Beaver Cleaver ideal. I think that is instead what folks like Bushy-Poo II and his buddies, Especially (she turned me into a) Newt Gingrich, see as the "way things should be."
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2003 11:47 pm
hobitbob wrote:
I don't know that "we" see "democracy"as the cure for the world's ills as much as some nostalgic 1950s Beaver Cleaver ideal.


By 'we' I meant the American establishment. Although it is also a sentiment among most Americans. I should have made that clear.

Quote:
I think that is instead what folks like Bushy-Poo II and his buddies, Especially (she turned me into a) Newt Gingrich, see as the "way things should be."


I beg to differ. They see it as much more than the 'way things should be.' We have been actively promoting democracy and other American (Western) values in our foriegn policy for years (or at least claiming to promote them.) Examples:

Richard Haas, Director of Policy Planning at the US State Dept:

"The Arab world faces serious problems that can only be met by more flexible and more democratic political systems."

"Greater democracy in Muslim majority countries is good for the people who live there. But it's also good for the United States."

"Supporting and extending democracy has long been a centerpiece of American foreign policy."

Colin Powell:

"Our responsibility as citizens of the world's greatest democracy to ensure that our country is a force for freedom all around the world. After all, unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were given by God to all humankind. They belong to every man, woman and child on this earth. As a result, the United States will assist other nations to achieve these basic human aspirations because they are universal.

President Bush:

"[Democracy] is the great achievement of our time, and the great hope of every time.......we must pass on our agenda of prosperity to every land."
0 Replies
 
John Webb
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2003 04:25 am
President Bush:

"[Democracy] is the great achievement of our time, and the great hope of every time.......we must pass on our agenda of prosperity to every land."

Heaven help the world, if the Bush version of democracy is having rulers appointed by Supreme Courts instead of chosen by voters?

Followed by invasions of other sovereign nations, appointing new governments and trillion dollar deficits? Crying or Very sad
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2003 08:33 pm
From The New Republic:
Quote:
Abdul Samad is devoted to the Taliban. He walks for miles through the rugged terrain of southern Afghanistan, crossing mountains for days at a stretch in search of targets to ambush. The Taliban, he says, are "in a fight ordained by God. The more one contributes, the bigger his reward on the day of judgment." And, when he finds targets--government officials, aid workers, members of the international coalition forces in Afghanistan, Afghan policemen--Samad contributes his share.

But Samad isn't a veteran of the deposed Taliban government simmering over his loss of power. He's a 19-year-old Pakistani who was twelve when the Taliban took power in 1996. Several weeks ago, Samad received a letter from the Taliban's one-eyed spiritual guru and supreme leader, Mullah Omar, who asked him to join the fight. Samad, a recent attendee of a conservative madrassa in Pakistan, where Omar's letter was received, quickly sold his mother's jewelry to buy himself the assault rifle he needed and joined up. "I told my parents that, if I died fighting, they too would be rewarded by God," he says.

And Samad is one of thousands. Though the Western media has reported that the Taliban are reemerging in southern Afghanistan, staging attacks on the U.S.-led coalition, the coverage obscures a more frightening development. Many of today's Taliban fighters aren't scattered remnants of the old regime. They're die-hard young Pakistanis, trained across the border in religious schools and commanded, in a centralized organization, by the reclusive Mullah Omar. And they have a clear, plausible strategy for gaining control of Afghanistan: wear down their opponents with guerrilla attacks until they flee--just like in 1996, the first time the Taliban came to power.

There have been sporadic attacks against coalition forces since the war ended in Afghanistan two years ago, but, in recent months, the scope and number of attacks have increased sharply. The Western press has reported these incidents with alarm, but many media outlets attribute the violence to remnants of the former government. The "Taliban have spent much of the period since the liberation regrouping," reported The Daily Telegraph earlier this month. The United States faces "regrouped elements of the Taliban militia," concurred The Washington Post.

In fact, the Taliban isn't just regrouping--it's recruiting a whole new generation. Several months ago, Omar, who is reportedly hiding in Afghanistan, contacted trusted aides. He asked them to start recruiting Pakistani madrassa students in the southern province of Baluchistan in order to begin a more intensive guerrilla war. "Mullah Dadullah [one of Omar's aides] was sent to Pakistan because he is ... widely respected ... by many Pashtun youths," says a Taliban insider. In the last few months, the insider says, Dadullah has visited dozens of religious schools in Pakistan, asking boys to join his jihad against the U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan. Those who volunteer are provided information about how to proceed to Afghanistan and whom to contact in the resistance once they arrive.

Omar and his lieutenants have also taken steps to insulate their activities from Pakistani police loyal to President Pervez Musharraf's mission of erasing religious radicalism. According to sources, Omar's lieutenants meet students but rarely interact with the principals of the madrassas or other local religious leaders. "Mullah Omar believes that most of these leaders are cowards or have been bought by U.S. dollars and so cannot be trusted," says one of Omar's associates.

Their strategy has been successful. Raised in an environment of extremist Islam, many young men in Pakistani madrassas consider the U.S. presence in Afghanistan an outrage. "There was peace during Taliban rule. ... But, with the arrival of the infidel forces, not only has law and order rapidly deteriorated, but women are no longer safe even within the confines of their homes," Samad says. "Resistance is incumbent on all Muslims." What's more, the Taliban have focused their efforts on Pashtun recruits in Pakistan. Many Pashtuns are resentful of the current situation in Afghanistan; though President Hamid Karzai is a Pashtun, they feel their community is underrepresented everywhere else in his Northern Alliance-dominated government.

Worse, there has been a general breakdown of law in Afghanistan; local traders have to pay extortion money to warlords and highway bandits, and those who refuse often are killed. As a result, sympathy for the Taliban's harsh brand of order--and for the new Talibs crossing into Afghanistan--is rising. Because the international peacekeeping forces in Afghanistan are small and concentrated in the north, the Taliban can easily move around the south, playing on this sympathy and gaining local support for fighters coming in from Pakistan. "Given the geography of Afghanistan and the growing dimensions of the insurgency, fifteen thousand troops [in the international coalition force] are negligible," says an Afghan government official. And, with no security, there has been little development work in the country's southern regions, the kind of aid projects that could win hearts and minds. Even potable water remains hard to find in the south, and many villagers have to walk miles to fetch drinking water. "We supported the international coalition because we thought they would change our lives, but so far nothing has changed," says a villager who lives near Kandahar.

For Omar, these hardships present opportunities. Indeed, according to intelligence estimates, at least 5,000 Pakistani youths from Pashtun tribal areas have filtered into Afghanistan in recent months. They have quickly armed themselves. "Afghanistan has traditionally been a source of supply of weapons for Pakistan. Now, ironically, for the first time in Pakistan's history, many of those weapons sent across the border to be marketed in Pakistan in the last few years are being ferried back to Afghanistan," says Haji Abdul Samad, a tribal leader in Pakistan.

Fighting has intensified quickly. In the last few weeks, 400 people have been killed in southern Afghanistan in attacks by Taliban guerrillas, who aim to wear down the coalition forces. The fighters' modus operandi is simple: They emerge from their hideouts after sunset and either wait along highways for the jeep patrols of Afghan soldiers or ambush their outposts once the soldiers are asleep. "What we are trying to do is to inflict maximum damage on U.S. troops and their allies so that they get fed up and leave our country like the Russians, who only quit because of the long and unyielding resistance by the Afghans," says one Taliban fighter. "Once the Americans leave, we will easily be able to take over." In the most devastating recent attack, some 400 Taliban militiamen gained control of an entire district of Zabul Province for a few hours in August, where they hoisted the spartan white Taliban flag, killed at least 29 Afghan soldiers, and announced that anybody found cooperating with U.S. forces or their "puppet government" would face grave consequences. The Afghan army ultimately regained control of Zabul.

As they have demonstrated their growing power, the Taliban have won recruits inside Afghanistan as well. "Hundreds of elder tribesmen have volunteered their youths to us," says Mohammed Amin, leader of a group of Taliban in Kandahar Province. "They include small children, some even under twelve. ... Many of them work as our lookouts and supply us important information." In fact, the Taliban may even have infiltrated Karzai's Afghan army, Amin says. "For us, they are like our 'moving bugging devices,'" he says. "We are always well-prepared before we attack because our informants in the Afghan army have given us all the necessary data." Amin notes an incident that occurred three months ago near the town of Spin Boldak in which a Taliban fighter, who had infiltrated the Afghan army, gunned down six Afghan soldiers.

Omar has taken direct control of this force. In addition to directing the recruiting in Pakistan, he is in touch with leaders in the field in Afghanistan, many of whom are equipped with modern satellite phones. Amin shows me a handwritten letter bearing Omar's signature, exhorting him and his fellow commanders to fight the "slavery of the infidel U.S." What's more, sources say, Omar has increased his control over and contact with his ten-member shura council of leaders, who direct fighting in the field.

aced with this increasingly organized resistance, Karzai's government, which exercises limited control outside Kabul, is scrambling. In recent months, Karzai has replaced the governors of Kandahar, Zabul, and Wardak Provinces, looking for stronger officials more willing to combat Taliban militancy. Karzai also has stepped up his rhetorical pressure on Pakistan, calling for Musharraf's government to crack down harder on madrassas.

But, despite Karzai's actions, the Taliban is hardly fading away. In fact, unrest is growing in at least a dozen of Afghanistan's 32 provinces. And the fighting distracts the government from crucial tasks. Before the presidential election--Afghanistan's first--due in June 2004, Karzai must finish drafting a constitution, conduct a census, register millions of voters, and reform the education system. A daunting task for any government. Perhaps an impossible one for a regime facing the new Taliban.

Massoud Ansari is a senior reporter for Newsline, a leading Pakistani news magazine.

Posted the whole article so the conservatives won't have to subscribe. Very Happy
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