When is it enough

Depends...there's a sliding scale of addiction.

Research has shown that certain peoples pleasure centres in the brain are stimilated more by drugs than others (which helps explain why some people get addicted quicker and deeper than others).

I would personally say get your life in order, before you rescue others. Being addicted to anything, and having another person with an addiction, usually leads to both people staying addicted....or staying weak, because their partner understands (understanding is nice, but it can be used as an excuse to continue too).

In the end, each of us are entirely responsible for our own lives...and we can be heavily influenced by the people we let into our lives...so if we are responsible, and are weakened by people in our life...

Ie. If you are not going to be responsible for your life, who is? (and that principle applies to each and every person alive). It's fine to support, so long as you aren't dragged down into the pits by the other person.

Interesting I was just reading an article about addiction and how one young man was thought to have overcome it only to overdose - very sad, but the message may help you.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/08/26/a_fathers_dreaded_final_duty_funeral_home_director_prepares_son_for_burial/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed1

Sounds llike you are confronting your co-dependent self - you have accepted that your friend is an addict and you are powerless against that.

Now . . . how about confronting your own addiction?

Well here's a question I have. I didn't know whether to put it on the narcissistic personality disorder thread or here. Luckily, (for me) I'm not married to or going out with this person, but he is a very good friend, who I really care about as a person. He's been struggling with alcoholism. He went through rehab and I was happily surprised at his progress and determination and convinced he'd made it through. I had offered him a job, based on my belief that he'd truly quit drinking- I wouldn't be able to work with him when he is drinking because although he's very talented- as he's just irresponsible and unreliable when he's drinking.

Anyway - it's almost like I'd become his security blanket since he'd quit drinking, as I was one of the few friends he had who didn't have any addictions to substances. I mean, I'd sit there and watch three movies with him, and every time I'd make a move to leave and say, 'Yeah, well, I gotta get up in the morning,' he'd say, 'Watch one more with me' almost as if if I weren't there - he'd do something he'd regret- like go out and drink.
So he went through rehab and then it got a little better- I didn't actually have to be there, but it became nightly phone calls. And sometimes it was twice a night - I mean we'd talk and then he'd say, 'You'll call me later, right?' so I did.

Well the other night, he had called and asked me to call him later- so I did. He didn't answer his home phone, but he answered his cell phone and I could hear laughter and music in the background - it was about ten pm. So I said, 'What're you up to?' which is not and out of the ordinary way for me to start our conversations. I didn't say it in an accusing manner at all.
He said, 'I had to nip out to the shop before it closed for milk and bread.'
I said, 'Sounds like a fun shop...'
He got all pissed off and said, 'It's a SHOP Rebecca - it's just a SHOP!', and hung up on me.

Well I was tired and ready to go to bed so I just didn't try to call back. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought, 'I don't want to be anyone's minder.' You know - if he was at a pub - so be it - that's his choice. I can't babysit him.
So I haven't called. He's sent me a postcard and called twice and I just didn't answer the phone because I don't know what to say. I have no experience with addiction in myself or in anyone close to me, and I don't know how to play codependent. And I don't want to.

But I do love and care about this person and I hate ignoring him.
Does anyone have any advice?

He deserves to know where you stand on the relationship. Does he know?

You need to find the words to tell him that he has a job to do (get sober and stay that way) and he has the "tools" to do that (he's learned them in re-hab and 12 step programs) so he may need some time to do that.

Alanon would be a great group for you to join.

For him, time is the great revealer.

You are overly pessimistic, people do heal and are transformed. It does not happen the majority of the time, but it does happen.

One or both of the parties being damaged and/or addictive does not change the laws of relationship.....the relationship must be negotiated and it must benefit both parties. I have seen a lot of guys stick with girls damaged by CSA only because of a sense of duty, or out of charity. What ever feelings that they have for the girl originally turn to bitterness before it is all over, and it always gets to be over. I don't recommend giving of yourself to your friend for either of those reasons, there has to be something in the deal for you. Also, it does not appear that he is negotiating in good faith, he seems to be trying to manipulate you into giving him what he wants.

Caution is required.

Well, it's just turned so dishonest. I talked to someone today who told me he'd seen him the other night for the first time in a long time and they had a few drinks. I hadn't said anything about him having been in rehab - I just nodded when the other guy told me this- and didn't comment.
So then I called my friend to ask how he'd been getting on and he made up this whole story about having dropped his phone when I asked why he'd hung up on me just for making a joke about the 'fun shop' - he said in fact he hadn't hung up but his phone had broken when he dropped it, so he couldn't call me back...yeah...
So I said, 'Well, how's it been going for you?'
And he said, 'Fine - I don't even think about it or miss it anymore.'
So that says to me that I've now become the friend to whom he'll have to lie and from whom he'll have to hide his drinking.
I don't want to play that role. I mean in a way, it makes it easier in that I'll never be put in the position of having a drink with someone I know should not be drinking...that'd make me feel incredibly guilty if I did that. So him pretending in front of me that he still doesn't drink saves me that sticky situation...but it also means that I know our friendship is built on this lie.

I don't know whether to tell him I know he's drinking or just pretend that I think he's not.

Jesus - what a mess.
Again- I've never been put in a situation like this with any of my friends and I have no idea how to act or proceed.
I find it very hard to pretend to believe things I know are lies - but on the other hand-I find it very hard to believe that it's up to me to be the one to point out his shortcomings and lies to him.

Which would be more helpful to him? I have no idea.

It is not all about him, he is exactly 1/2 of the friendship. What do you want, what would be more helpful to you?? If I were in your shoes I would be thinking about my personal integrity, about how I have enough respect for myself to not be willing to play the part of the chump in a friendship, but that is me. What about you?

You are not responsible for whether he drinks. I think that we have a responsibility to help others when we can and when others want our help, but wanting help requires wanting to get better and being willing to be honest with ourselves and with others. This guy is not honest with others, is there any reason to think that he is being honest with himself?

YOur time/energy are valuable, only invest it where it makes sense, as much as love will allow you to apply reason.

What I like about and get out of the friendship is the fact that we communicate on a very basic and honest level to the point where I usually feel free to say whatever might come into my head to him. There are not a lot of people who are open to that sort of communication. He also knows a lot about English literature, history, culture and geography that I find interesting. He's also funny and enjoyable company.
But beyond that-I don't really need or expect anything from him. I'm not dependent upon him in any way, and he's not beholden to me for anything, so whatever he chooses to do or say when he's not talking to or with me, isn't really any of my business- except in the sense that I care about him and would hate to see him suffer the emotional and physical effects of continuing to be tied to an addiction that he was so happy to have kicked for a while.


Yeah - there's the rub. I think I am going to have to say, 'Cut the **** - I know you're drinking again- but that's gonna have to be your deal, just don't lie to me okay? ' and as you said, retain my own sense of personal integrity because last night when I talked to him and essentially led him to believe that I believe what he's telling me, it felt like I was being dishonest. And I don't like that feeling.



No, and I don't want to be. I'm not responsible for anything he chooses to do- and I don't want to be.
I just want him to be healthy - but as you point out - that's gonna have to be his deal.


You know I think that's the crux of the matter. I have a family member who was close to me who committed suicide. One residual effect of that, in my life, is that I CANNOT ignore people when they seem to need my presence or help in any way.
I didn't ignore my brother - intellectually, I know he'd have done what he did eventually, despite anyone's intervention- and I know that was his choice.
But having been close to someone who felt alone enough to take such action sort of emotionally imprinted me with the inability to ever let people who come into my life feel that they are alone with their issues or problems- because I know what that feeling can lead someone to do.

I can't pretend not to care when I do - but I think what I'm going to have to say is: 'I can be friends with someone who has a drinking problem- but I can't be friends with someone who lies to me.'

Thanks Hawkeye - your responses were very helpful to me in terms of thinking this through.
I appreciate your time and effort.