I thought this silly argument had been dropped ...

Why thank you, JTT.
I think I always have mixed them up. Now I know better!

I've never mixed them up, if I've thought about it while typing. On the other hand, I make abysmal primitive spelling mistakes that I never made as a child (well, maybe once or twice) from some kind of vestigial learning center when I was six... again, while typing. I figure a lot of mistakes that occur in posts are of this sort, from the lizard brain. I find myself correcting here and hear and I've known the difference longer than most posters have been alive.

I'm a bit confused, Jane, and concerned. If you think that that fella has cleared anything up, you're badly mistaken. He has made a complete schmozzle of it. Actually, I explained it to you a long long time ago on another thread that asked the same question. I think it was in the Peeves thread.

Is there a way to search within a thread?

I don't know , JTT, but I was kidding you.

If I were (used for conditions that are contrary to the fact)
Example: If I were you, I would.....
If I was ( used for conditions that are not contrary to the fact)
Example: If I was rude, then I am sorry.....

That is of course, false. And again, it points up just how nonsensical these prescriptions are. These idiots only have to look to language for examples to see how wrong they are. There are examples everywhere. For this particular case concerning 'was' or 'were', the use of 'was' outstrips the use of 'were'.

Just because a conditional can describe a condition contrary to fact [counterfactual] doesn't mean that that's all it can do. These conditionals also are used to discuss doubtful situations that are not contrary to fact.

If I were to order pizza, would you have some?

OR

If I ordered pizza, would you have some?

In these two sentences, only one using the subjunctive 'were', the speaker isn't stating that he/she is not going to order pizza, it's not a counterfactual. There's quite a good chance that this person is going to order pizza.

The person is using this form as a way to introduce the idea that he/she is going to order pizza, in a round about way, in a doubtful fashion.

These two examples above are very close in nature to,

If I order pizza [no past tense FORM, ie. no 'ed'], would you have some?



Again, false. "If I was" can sometimes suggest doubting something occurred, as in his example, "if I was rude", which means, "Allowing that I was rude".

But just because a word can hold a certain meaning for some situations doesn't mean that it holds that same meaning for all other situations.

"If I was a carpenter", "If I was a bell", "If I was a rich man"

all mean the same as,

"If I were a carpenter", "If I were a bell", "If I were a rich man",

that is,

"I'm not a carpenter", "I'm not a bell", "I'm not a rich man.



The was/were "distinction" is only made tricky by idiots who don't understand language, even when it's right smack dab in front of them. The distinction he is trying to make doesn't exist in English, it hasn't for hundreds of years.

Why doesn't he explain himself when he suggests that "was somehow sounds wrong to me"? Because he has so thoroughly confused himself with a prescription, and what is a prescription? it's an artificial rule, one that is alien to the natural workings of English. Little wonder that he's confused, but it's of his own doing.

Sentence 3, above, could be a counterfactual or it could be an expression of some doubt, just as, 3a., below, with 'were',

3a. If I were to train as a carpenter, I would get to wear safety goggles.

can be a counterfactual or an expression of some doubt. How do we tell which it is? From the wider context that exists for every language situation.




"If I was you" means exactly the same thing as "If I were you". There is zero difference in meaning. There is a difference in level of formality but that isn't really important right now.

What they both entail is, "I am not you".

Clearly, Foxfyre is not President Obama. She chose 'was' to state that counterfactual/contrary to fact situation. She did so following a natural rule of English.

Some prescriptivists try to tell people that only 'were' can be used in such situations. That's not a natural rule for English.

Foxfyre, of course, could have chosen to use 'were'.