Free, Public Healthcare

I don't disagree with you, jpb, but the programmatic emphasis seems to me a systemic problem. Bringing a new drug to market? How about how stuff works? I get it that there is some play on that in the search for drugs. I'd be more comfortable with drug winning not being the key goal.

To explain, I'd be more comfortable re bias.

the haves don't wanna share with the have-nots...

nobody in power wants to scrap a system that works for the haves.

Somehow every Western country except the US has overcome this difficulty. I'm not usually one for drinking the Obamaniac's Cool-Aid, but in this case I have to counter your fatalism with a resounding "yes, you can".

I'm on your side in this one, way more than you know.

just a born cynic...

Could you two be clearer? I'm sincere.

We're obscure on purpose. It's a male bonding thing ya know.

Oh. I didn't notice the "I'm sincere" part, sorry. What's unclear to you, Osso?

I don't question your numbers, Thomas, but the uninsured and under insured do NOT spend 15% of their income on health care. We've boxed them into a system that forces them to go without health care altogether or to wait until such time that an ER visit is imperative and they can't pay for that either.

Whatever discussions we have need to look at the tens of millions of Americans who are uninsured or unable to pay for health benefits. We also need to look at the costs associated with perfectionist expectations of our health care providers, as well as the cost imposed on our medical system by the rigorous oversight of the FDA.

Grrrr.

So, you're lazy and won't tell me.




Kidding. But I would like to understand you both.

So what? I accounted for that in my calculation, which you say you have no problem with. Let me try to explain it again:

According to the calculation, introducing universal health care brings two changes:

1. Because universal health care is more efficient than what America now has, health care spending per person after the reform is 66% ofwhat it was before the reform.
   
   
2. Because the previously uninsured are now insured, the number of persons insured rises from 250M to 300M. This is the part that accounts for the fact that the uninsured are not currently spending 15% of their income on healthcare.

But this means the total amount of money spent after (300M * 66%) is still smaller than the total amount of money spent before (250M * 100%), and that the efficiency gain is indeed paying for insuring the previously uninsured. And this is under the pessimistic assumption that noone is currently spending any money on those emergency rooms. Accounting for that would increase the free lunch even more.

Ok, two quotes -

from rockhead,
http://able2know.org/topic/133217-5#post-3674751

from Thomas,
http://able2know.org/topic/133217-5#post-3674751

and then,
http://able2know.org/topic/133217-5#post-3674755



I don't know that you two understand each other, and maybe you do.
I have regard for both of you, interested.

Thomas, ima let you handle this one...

Rockhead is cynical about the chances that universal healthcare actually will happen, for the reason he gives in his first post. I, by contrast, am uncharacteristically optimistic, which is what I say in my post. But Rockhead and I both want universal health care to happen. That's why we're on the same side, as Rockhead states in his second post.

If only you had as much hair on your breasts as we do, you would surely understand the manly, Hemingwayesque tightness of our prose.

So, I've just gotten that Thomas is for Universal Health Care? I'll stop bitching, if so.

You're not bitching, Osso. Good night!

well said, sir...

(for an optomitrist)

eh? I won't connect Thomas to that comment.

Oh, and good night to you too, Thomas.

was not sniping at you, forgot about your eyes...

(you are not the only one can't see to read)

i'm done here.

ok, rh, I'll believe you, it was just a riff. Calling Thomas an optomitrist?

I'm more aware of my eyes than anyone else. Can't see to read with my left, by any means, but I do with the right, the eye losing. It's the right there is hope for. This is not the usual that happens to humans in their forties.
I admit I'm a mess, and supersensitive. Edgy and going down.
I get it that you are enraged at me, as I am at you, for other stuff than my eyes.
But, please, don't taunt with me about my eyes.