Free, Public Healthcare

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Theoretically, this will lead to higher paychecks for you, as the burden of subsidizing your health care is lifted from the business.

It will lead to less money in his pocket as the government will burden
all of us with higher taxes in an effort to pay for socialized medicine.

Liberals demonize self reliance and free market solutions.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Theoretically, this will lead to higher paychecks for you, as the burden of subsidizing your health care is lifted from the business.

It will lead to less money in his pocket as the government will burden
all of us with higher taxes in an effort to pay for socialized medicine.

Liberals demonize self reliance and free market solutions.

yep and that concerns me a bit more. I have good insurance now. I do not want to pay more (in taxes) for less coverage.

2 Replies

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Theoretically, this will lead to higher paychecks for you, as the burden of subsidizing your health care is lifted from the business.

It will lead to less money in his pocket as the government will burden
all of us with higher taxes in an effort to pay for socialized medicine.

Liberals demonize self reliance and free market solutions.

yep and that concerns me a bit more. I have good insurance now. I do not want to pay more (in taxes) for less coverage.

You pretend as if the situation is not fluid; that is to say, your employer will be paying less, but you will receive no further compensation. This goes against modern economic theories; the situation will balance itself out over time.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

You pretend that you know what you are talking about.
Obama also plans to tax all businesses, this added cost will be
passed on to the employee resulting in less take home pay...

0 Replies

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

yep and that concerns me a bit more. I have good insurance now. I do not want to pay more (in taxes) for less coverage.

That would certainly suck, but I'm at a loss to imagine that any tax to provide health care (your plan or gov-sponsored insurance) could possibly cost as much as my employer and I already pay. And what we pay now goes completely out the window the minute we part ways from one another. The whole employer based health care scheme is just illogical. Why should my job have anything to do with my health care?

2 Replies

@FreeDuck,

When have you ever seen the government set the example and offer a service at a lower cost than the private sector?

Neither the employer nor the government should have anything to do with health care, yours or mine.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

Education. I'm not saying we don't have problems with our education system, but I pay less for public education than I ever could for private.

2 Replies

@FreeDuck,

You get what you pay for.

Government education is woefully inadequate especially when you look
at how many tax payer dollars are thrown at it and were those dollars go.

The true cost of government education is above and beyond private education.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

yep and that concerns me a bit more. I have good insurance now. I do not want to pay more (in taxes) for less coverage.

That would certainly suck, but I'm at a loss to imagine that any tax to provide health care (your plan or gov-sponsored insurance) could possibly cost as much as my employer and I already pay. And what we pay now goes completely out the window the minute we part ways from one another. The whole employer based health care scheme is just illogical. Why should my job have anything to do with my health care?

If my company did not offer health insurance, I would not work for them. That is why we have the employer based health care "scheme". If you want quality employees that are willing to work for you, they must be compensated for what they do. Health care is a benefit for working for an employer. It is erroneous to think that people will just work straight with no "extra" or "fringe" benefits. Health care, paid vacation, sick time, etc. have evolved in the US as a standard expectation for full time employees.

Is there a law that stipulates any of that? I ask because I really have no idea. I believe an employer is allowed to offer zero benefits but they will probably get the employees they deserve.

The US has never had any sort of socialized medicine program. I'd be fine keeping it that way.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

Education. I'm not saying we don't have problems with our education system, but I pay less for public education than I ever could for private.

But everyone, whether they have kids or not, pay for public education whereas people that send their kids to private school have to pay for the individual on top of the public school tax.

Wouldn't you say that those private schools provide a better education for the most part?

3 Replies

@McGentrix,

some private schools provide excellent education, some don't. You pays your money and takes your chances. some people use the US mail, some use UPS, you pays your money, you takes your chances.

1 Reply

@dyslexia,

At least parents have a choice... shop around

0 Replies

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

If my company did not offer health insurance, I would not work for them. That is why we have the employer based health care "scheme". If you want quality employees that are willing to work for you, they must be compensated for what they do. Health care is a benefit for working for an employer. It is erroneous to think that people will just work straight with no "extra" or "fringe" benefits. Health care, paid vacation, sick time, etc. have evolved in the US as a standard expectation for full time employees.

Vacation, sick time, those make sense in relation to employment. But why should all of the money I paid in suddenly be worth nothing simply because I no longer work for my employer. And make no mistake, my employer only pays a fraction of the cost of the coverage, I pay the rest, though conveniently pre-tax. The reason why employer sponsored health insurance is usually cheaper for individual policy holders is because of insurance pools. The bigger the company, the bigger the pool and the more you can spread the risk. The smaller company, the smaller the pool, and you get the idea. But these pools are artificial concepts. I've had the same insurance carrier for several different companies -- shouldn't the pool be the entire population of people that the company insures?

Quote:

Is there a law that stipulates any of that? I ask because I really have no idea. I believe an employer is allowed to offer zero benefits but they will probably get the employees they deserve.

I think that companies of a certain size have to offer it, yes. I can't swear to it though and will look it up.

Quote:

The US has never had any sort of socialized medicine program. I'd be fine keeping it that way.

We never had public education until we did. Regardless of of the problems with the system, I'm glad we have public education and will be glad when we have public health care as well.

0 Replies

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

You get what you pay for.

I actually get quite a bit more than I pay for. I pay roughly $3500 a year in property tax (in case you were under the mistaken impression that most of the funding comes from the feds -- it doesn't) and I have two children in school. Private school around here costs between 12k and 15k per year, plus expenses and transportation.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

Quote:

Wouldn't you say that those private schools provide a better education for the most part?

In most cases, yes. (For my take on why, see here) But somewhere along the line we agreed that some basic level of education should be available to everyone, whether they could pay or not. Just like with health care, that basic level won't be the best, but it should mean a literate populace and, hopefully, a trained workforce. If you want something more for your child, and can afford to pay for it, then you are very lucky and should totally go for it. Most people in this country cannot afford to pay to educate their children at the market rate, so I am grateful to have a public system, even though I think it could be oh so much better where I live.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

McG

Quote:

But everyone, whether they have kids or not, pay for public education whereas people that send their kids to private school have to pay for the individual on top of the public school tax.

Wouldn't you say that those private schools provide a better education for the most part?

Yes...and I envision a system that combines your idea(care stations) with freeduck's idea: health care using the public education model.

Anybody could buy into a higher level by making their own contributions.

These stations would be staffed by Dr.s whose education would be funded by the state or county much as in the Army model where people are trained courtesy of our armed forces and have to give 2 years service at a nominal fee.

If you don't think the uninsured are being treated at your expense right now...better think again.

I have a friend who had a heart attack on a construction site. We took him to an emergency room where they revived him and after $100 k worth of treatment he was able to continue his life...

He makes a token payment every month ...but will never be able to pay it back. Who pays for this?

2 Replies

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

(in case you were under the mistaken impression that most of the funding comes from the feds -- it doesn't)

And just were do you think the Feds get the money they spend?

Setting up socialized health care to mirror government schools is a flawed plan that will end up costing the taxpayers trillions.

0 Replies

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

Most people in this country cannot afford to pay to educate their children at the market rate

They would if taxes were lowered and they were given a choice.

1 Reply

@panzade,

panzade wrote:

I envision a system that combines your idea(care stations) with freeduck's idea: health care using the public education model.

A recipe for financial disaster... and what about the children?
Won't somebody please think of the children.

1 Reply

@panzade,

Ayep.

0 Replies

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