Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 11:07 am
California court upholds Prop 8. Gay marriage remains illegal.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 5 • Views: 1,902 • Replies: 23
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 11:15 am
@dyslexia,
Do you think people will support same sex marriage when it back on the ballot again? I hope so.

BBB
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 11:23 am
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
I don't know. Prop 8 passed even though Obama was heading up the ticket and pulling out liberals in large numbers. That doesn't speak well for future success in a standard election. At least there is an active conversation going on.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 11:27 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

I don't know. Prop 8 passed even though Obama was heading up the ticket and pulling out liberals in large numbers. That doesn't speak well for future success in a standard election. At least there is an active conversation going on.


I am quite sure that it will be repealed by the populace pretty soon. We'll just keep on trying and working till it is.

I don't think Obama necessarily helped Prop 8 for a variety of reasons.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 12:38 pm
Didn't the populace just vote to have prop 8 enacted? Why would they turn around and do away with it?
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 12:42 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Didn't the populace just vote to have prop 8 enacted? Why would they turn around and do away with it?


It was pretty close - 51-49%. A lot of the vote was spurred on by scare tactics and hateful commercials funded by the Mormon church. It seems likely that a greater effort on the part of equality advocates could put it over the edge this time.

And if the Mormons want to continue spending millions of dollars to try and keep gays down, let them - we'll bankrupt the motherfuckers. If it doesn't pass this time, it will come up again, and again... and again.. every single election, until it does pass.

Cycloptichorn
Woiyo9
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 01:22 pm
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D98E32U80&show_article=1.

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - The California Supreme Court upheld a voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage Tuesday, but it also decided that the estimated 18,000 gay couples who tied the knot before the law took effect will stay wed.

Demonstrators outside the court yelled "shame on you!"

The 6-1 decision written by Chief Justice Ron George rejected an argument by gay rights activists that the ban revised the California Constitution's equal protection clause to such a dramatic degree that it first needed the Legislature's approval.

The court said the Californians have a right, through the ballot box, to change their constitution.

"In a sense, petitioners' and the attorney general's complaint is that it is just too easy to amend the California Constitution through the initiative process. But it is not a proper function of this court to curtail that process; we are constitutionally bound to uphold it," the ruling said.

The justices said the 136-page majority ruling does not speak to whether they agree with Proposition 8 or "believe it should be a part of the California Constitution."

They said they were "limited to interpreting and applying the principles and rules embodied in the California Constitution, setting aside our own personal beliefs and values."

What is happening in California?

First the voters turn down TAX INCREASES and now THIS????
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 05:26 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

Didn't the populace just vote to have prop 8 enacted? Why would they turn around and do away with it?


It was pretty close - 51-49%. A lot of the vote was spurred on by scare tactics and hateful commercials funded by the Mormon church. ...


like the mormans have any business tut tutting anybody else about morals.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 12:28 am
It's hard to say what happens next. I suspect that prior to CA, we will see a surge in gay rights in other states and perhaps eventually this will make the national stage with the USSC. If not, I still thin kthat a few more states will pass laws granting gays the right to marry in the next few years.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 01:20 am
if it came to ballot in the next election, i doubt it would pass again. a lot of buyer's remorse, i think.

so, let it rip, folks. i'll sign to knock it down.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  0  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 02:07 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo--In a Democracy, the good guys usually win. The left wing has been strutting around predicting that conservatism is dead.

There are just a couple of things wrong with that statement.

There are some scenarios which would lead to a massive resurgence drawing most centrists away from the left and towards the right.

It would be difficult because there are so many minorities like African-Americans and Hispanics who not only vote reflexively but do not read well enough to read the editorial pages.

But here are the scenarios:

l. If there is an attack on the USA where lives are lost( God Forbid) Obama and his left wing programs are finished.

2. If the Unemployment Rate( now near 10% but really, when counting those who have used up thier benefits; those who are discouraged and those who are working part time but need full time work) is over 10% in January 2010 when the campaigns begin, Obama and the left are in trouble.

3. If Obama is still president when Medicare and Social Security have to cut back drastically because of lack of funds, Obama and the left are in trouble.

4.If Obama's prodigious spending causes HIGH inflation, al la Jimmy Carter, Obama and the left are in trouble.

Your comment, Woiyo9, is perfect--FIRST THE VOTERS TURN DOWN TAX INCREASES AND NOW THIS?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 05:34 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

Didn't the populace just vote to have prop 8 enacted? Why would they turn around and do away with it?


It was pretty close - 51-49%. A lot of the vote was spurred on by scare tactics and hateful commercials funded by the Mormon church. It seems likely that a greater effort on the part of equality advocates could put it over the edge this time.

And if the Mormons want to continue spending millions of dollars to try and keep gays down, let them - we'll bankrupt the motherfuckers. If it doesn't pass this time, it will come up again, and again... and again.. every single election, until it does pass.

Cycloptichorn

Sorry you failed in disenfranchising the citizens with the courts. I know that would have been your first choice. It's so much easier than having to go to all the work of persuading the people that you're right.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 05:34 am
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

Didn't the populace just vote to have prop 8 enacted? Why would they turn around and do away with it?


It was pretty close - 51-49%. A lot of the vote was spurred on by scare tactics and hateful commercials funded by the Mormon church. ...


like the mormans have any business tut tutting anybody else about morals.

Sure, why would people have the right to vote on the laws they live under?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 12:50 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

Didn't the populace just vote to have prop 8 enacted? Why would they turn around and do away with it?


It was pretty close - 51-49%. A lot of the vote was spurred on by scare tactics and hateful commercials funded by the Mormon church. It seems likely that a greater effort on the part of equality advocates could put it over the edge this time.

And if the Mormons want to continue spending millions of dollars to try and keep gays down, let them - we'll bankrupt the motherfuckers. If it doesn't pass this time, it will come up again, and again... and again.. every single election, until it does pass.

Cycloptichorn

Sorry you failed in disenfranchising the citizens with the courts.


Well, I have no ability to do anything with the courts, so this is a false statement on your part.

Quote:
I know that would have been your first choice. It's so much easier than having to go to all the work of persuading the people that you're right.


Mmm hmm.

Like I said earlier - I don't care what your bigoted opinion on this struggle is, Brandon. If you stand in the way of equality for all, you will lose. There's not even a question that you will lose. The younger generations are firmly on our side of the issue. As time goes on, higher and higher percentages of the voters will be of my generation, and we will do away with discriminatory laws of this sort, which do nothing but reassure the cowardly bigots such as yourself that yes, you still are better than a gay person.

The only question is how much time and money you want to waste before you give up. You are 100% equivalent to segregationists and racists who were overcome 40 years ago. They lost and you will lose too. I bet that's depressing to contemplate.

Because I guarantee that the side fighting for equality will not give up. Let us see how long the hateful among us can continue to scare people with their fearful statements.

Cycloptichorn
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 01:55 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Sure, why would people have the right to vote on the laws they live under?


so, if 51% of the people vote to outlaw all guns, you'd be okay with that?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 02:59 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

Didn't the populace just vote to have prop 8 enacted? Why would they turn around and do away with it?


It was pretty close - 51-49%. A lot of the vote was spurred on by scare tactics and hateful commercials funded by the Mormon church. It seems likely that a greater effort on the part of equality advocates could put it over the edge this time.

And if the Mormons want to continue spending millions of dollars to try and keep gays down, let them - we'll bankrupt the motherfuckers. If it doesn't pass this time, it will come up again, and again... and again.. every single election, until it does pass.

Cycloptichorn

Sorry you failed in disenfranchising the citizens with the courts.


Well, I have no ability to do anything with the courts, so this is a false statement on your part.

Quote:
I know that would have been your first choice. It's so much easier than having to go to all the work of persuading the people that you're right.


Mmm hmm.

Like I said earlier - I don't care what your bigoted opinion on this struggle is, Brandon. If you stand in the way of equality for all, you will lose. There's not even a question that you will lose. The younger generations are firmly on our side of the issue. As time goes on, higher and higher percentages of the voters will be of my generation, and we will do away with discriminatory laws of this sort, which do nothing but reassure the cowardly bigots such as yourself that yes, you still are better than a gay person.

The only question is how much time and money you want to waste before you give up. You are 100% equivalent to segregationists and racists who were overcome 40 years ago. They lost and you will lose too. I bet that's depressing to contemplate.

Because I guarantee that the side fighting for equality will not give up. Let us see how long the hateful among us can continue to scare people with their fearful statements.

Cycloptichorn

My point is that when a vote goes against you, you favor nullifying it in the courts, which indicates that you don't even really favor the basic right of people to determine their own government.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 03:01 pm
@Brandon9000,
Or perhaps he believes as many do including other legal authorities that this law violates the EPC.

What are your thoughts on majority oppression?

T
K
O?
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 03:08 pm
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

Or perhaps he believes as many do including other legal authorities that this law violates the EPC.

What are your thoughts on majority oppression?

T
K
O?

No, you simply don't respect even as fundamental a right as the right of people who disagree with you to prevail if they win a vote. And that's a very, very fundamental right indeed.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 03:15 pm
@Brandon9000,
Do you think a majority vote should allow a law to pass that conflict with other things already passed and ratified with all states? What about that vote?

Listen. CA can have prop8, but then I think that they have to get rid of the EPC. Oh wait... they can't. Prop8 is going to stand right now. I don't doubt it. It's disappointing to see such a blatant constitutional contradiction come into law, but there is nothing I can do or say from here other than convey my sympathy for those LGBT families in CA who are going to have to be patient to get their rights or move elsewhere.

T
K
O
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 03:21 pm
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

Do you think a majority vote should allow a law to pass that conflict with other things already passed and ratified with all states? What about that vote?

Listen. CA can have prop8, but then I think that they have to get rid of the EPC. Oh wait... they can't. Prop8 is going to stand right now. I don't doubt it. It's disappointing to see such a blatant constitutional contradiction come into law, but there is nothing I can do or say from here other than convey my sympathy for those LGBT families in CA who are going to have to be patient to get their rights or move elsewhere.

T
K
O

I agree that no one has the right to enact unconstitutional laws, but you guys can never find anything in the Constitution which actually supports your view. You always try to claim that the various unspecific, generic clauses in the Constitution implicitly include your view. Equal protection doesn't mean that anyone can do anything he wants to.
0 Replies
 
 

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