3
   

Next up... Terminator: Salvation, May 21 2009

 
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 12:41 pm
@Lightwizard,
Lightwizard wrote:
I think the idea as for this to be a hook for the next two films.

I agree. That's always what I thought it would be. It's just that I would have told a bit of a different story as the "hook".

I always felt that they could have close off the Kyle Reese loop just by sending him back again, and then they could move on with an entirely new future as the conflict changes dynamically.

The trouble with leaving Kyle's time displacement trip in the future of the story is that until it happens, we all know that Kyle and John will survive anything they encounter (takes away the suspense). They need to get past the time displacement event so that the audience can become re-engaged in the struggle.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 12:43 pm
@Reyn,
Reyn wrote:
rosborne979 wrote:
So many amazing stories they could have spun... (but didn't).

Would you have liked to see some recognition to the SCC series and see a tie in with the TS story?

I would have *liked* that, because I thought SCC had some very interesting plot elements, but I didn't absolutely *need* to see any linkage in order to enjoy TS. The main problem with TS is that it lacked any emotional depth to the characters and any really interesting elements to the story.

0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 01:05 pm
@rosborne979,
Cameron dropped doing any more in the series for a reason. I think he might have felt it could only go this route -- in other words, leave something to the imagination. If you try to come up with a new movie, make sure it has an engaging story and engaging characters. Otherwise, it's like McG's previous experience -- video games.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 06:31 pm
@Lightwizard,
I'm glad Cameron decided to do something new. Sequels can be good, but nothing is quite as exciting as a brand new story/idea which catches you by surprise. Smile
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 07:11 pm
@rosborne979,
Yes, finally a story taking place on an alien planet out of our Solar System instead of Earth being attacked again, or the lame movies they've concocted about trips to Mars. Then there's the aliens thrown in for local color of a Star Wars (the mediocre Episode One and Two especially), or the benevolent aliens coming to Earth like "Close Encounters." It's been done (even if sometimes quite well), Hollywood, and sci-fi has evolved from Jules Verne and H. G. Wells into a serious art form that is also entertaining. Get the astronauts out of the damn space ship and onto an imaginative and truly alien planet. Alien gave one us taste of it, then Aliens, but it was not the topography of the planet that was important like Avatar seems to accentuate. There's a philosophy of science and even a social philosophy between humans and aliens in the best sci-fi. There are more "what if's" out there than recycling the same old "what if's" over and over again to the point of ennui.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 07:37 pm
@Lightwizard,
Lightwizard wrote:
Yes, finally a story taking place on an alien planet out of our Solar System instead of Earth being attacked again, or the lame movies they've concocted about trips to Mars.

Yes, *finally*. You would think that storytellers would have explored their imaginations more deeply before and at least tried to put it on film, but the endeavor seems to be exceedingly rare.

I want to see them put David Brin's _Startide Rising_ on film, or Robert L. Forward's _Drgaon's Egg_.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 07:49 pm
@rosborne979,
Exactly -- get out of those erector set space ship interiors, please, and get into some serious storytelling that has a sense of wonder. The producers and writers like that material because they believe it appeals to the hi-tech kids through the 25 year old, primarily male audience (and that's changing). Just hope Cameron doesn't make an outer space, alien planet version of The Abyss. It doesn't mean the aliens can't be friendly, and the alien in Avatar could be alone -- perhaps the last of its kind on the planet or something in that direction. The message can be there -- it doesn't have to be complicated. The simplest message and be the most sublime -- it's how it's reached while being entertaining with anticipation.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jun, 2009 07:56 am
Foreign Box Office is mediocre:

Domestic: $92,657,197 78.4%
+ Foreign: $25,456,671 21.6%
= Worldwide: $118,113,868

It is in the area of breaking even with DVD sales but the X Box game which is a franchise isn't going to be a big revenue factor at only 12,000. units sold (at a whopping $59.95), it is trailing T2 by more than 50%

By now, McG and the producers are having a hangover breakfast at the Beverly Hills Hotel in the Polo Lounge -- I doubt they even left.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jun, 2009 08:02 am
@Lightwizard,
I just hope he and the writers didn't find their inspiration for an "alien insurrection" in the Ewoks.....
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jun, 2009 08:20 am
@DrewDad,
The Ewoks in Episode VI Return of the Jedi was the major drag on that film -- Lucas mades these mistakes consistently after the first Star Wars. The Ewoks were thrown in for the youngest crowd going to a "family film," although many parents wouldn't take their children who were still into Teddy Bears. Not to mention, it drug down all the special effects production values to include aliens who look like furry hand puppets from Sesame Street.

Cameron isn't that inclined to make mistakes,-- he doesn't make movies which make shameless attempts to pander to the audience, even the love story in "Titanic" was well written and he picked two actors who had the right chemistry. After all, he made the only Schwarzeneggar films which were really good -- "Terminator" I & II and "True Lies," the last film which made money in the Governator's film career.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 08:22 am
@Lightwizard,
I definitely approve of Cameron.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 08:28 am
So, here's my "Terminator" rant.

If you've developed AI to the point where a cyborg can convincingly interact with humans, and you've developed the technology to put skin over a metal chassis, why make anything remotely human looking? Why build big, expensive (in terms of resources) machines that a human can target with a rocket or rifle?

Small, cheap robots are the way to go. Just enough smarts to seek out a human, and go for the jugular. Rat-sized terminators that can infiltrate and inject you with nerve toxin. Better yet, self-replicating rat-sized terminators....
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 08:49 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

So, here's my "Terminator" rant.

If you've developed AI to the point where a cyborg can convincingly interact with humans, and you've developed the technology to put skin over a metal chassis, why make anything remotely human looking? Why build big, expensive (in terms of resources) machines that a human can target with a rocket or rifle?

I think the argument was that Terminators could infiltrate the resistance by pretending to be human and being led to their secret hideouts. This wasn't possible with the "rubber skin" models, even though Skynet tried them.

Terminator Salvation did imply that Skynet was producing a wide range of machines to kill people (Hydrobots and KillCycles), but they didn't really explore all the nuances of that methodology (another disappointment in the film), nor did they expand on it to speculate on micro-sized killing machines.

A future laden with Terminators in various forms could have been a very chilling one, but the film failed to convey it. Very unfortunate.

DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 08:59 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
I think the argument was that Terminators could infiltrate the resistance by pretending to be human and being led to their secret hideouts. This wasn't possible with the "rubber skin" models, even though Skynet tried them.

I suggest you read Cheap, Fast, and Out of Control.

Basic premise: spam the environment with lots of cheap copies, instead of a few expensive models.

(Come to think of it, it sounds kinda biological. That's basically what most species do. Terminators should be copying the insect world, instead of taking on humans one-on-one as top-level predators.)
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 09:00 am
@rosborne979,
On the other hand, I won't deny the narrative power of Doppelgangers.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 10:09 am
@DrewDad,
The producers should have thought of that premise in which T4 isn't a carbon copy (the smudges were already showing on T3) -- it's an inordinately expensive copy, partly due to what they likely had to pay Christian Bale. They were attempting to replace the iconic Ahnold but it doesn't help when Bale merely reprises his role as Batman. They did need to go further into how the machine would be evolving other than copies of other films with robots. If one goes back to all films made to mimic video games, I don't think anyone can remember one that was successful. The people who want to interact with the images aren't going to be satisfied with a lukewarm story creating the action for them.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2009 09:14 pm
What do we think of this movie? Any rumors or buzz?

DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2009 07:47 am
So I finally decided to see T4 last night. I had no expectations, so I wasn't let down. But whooooeeeee what a mess.

SPOILERS BELOW; YOU'VE BEEN WARNED







OK, what idiot didn't know that the signal to shut down the machines was a fake?

What idiot didn't know Wright would rebel?

What Apple fanboy wrote the scene where Wright smashes the display screen?

Aliens called... they want Newt back.

Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2009 08:22 am
@DrewDad,
Wow, you're tough!
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2009 08:26 am
@rosborne979,
I saw that trailer. It looks interesting. It's the only preview other that Transformers that I bothered to remember from last night.
0 Replies
 
 

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