4
   

Elizabeth Edwards=Scum

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:12 pm
I greatly enjoyed the Bear's sarcasm, but i didn't get the Nikki Sixx reference. I know who he is, and about his heroine book, but i don't see how it links up.

Call me dense . . .
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:14 pm
@Setanta,
your dense






Embarrassed , i don't get it either
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:15 pm
who died and made you Nikki Sixx = Who died and made you God in rockspeak
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:20 pm
@Bi-Polar Bear,
but robert pollard is the god of rock
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 01:26 pm
My qualms have to do with her going ahead and promoting his campaign when it is the nature of politics here in the US to vilify a candidate who has both fooled around and lied about it (which I take as separate issues), and with the nature of the press being what it is, the chances of this all being discovered were pretty good to just about certain. Thus, had this all been exposed after Edwards obtained the nomination.. well, Mc Cain would be president, in my estimation. So, she as well as he went ahead with the campaign knowing about this possibility. Not brave, but stupid, and not, finally, for the good of the country, from the democrats point of view... but high risk activity. I don't like them for this. Of course, if a spouse fooling around would not be considered by the public as a rule out situation for the presidencial candidacy, this, um, charade, wouldn't have seemed necessary to the Edwards.
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 02:27 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

My qualms have to do with her going ahead and promoting his campaign when it is the nature of politics here in the US to vilify a candidate who has both fooled around and lied about it (which I take as separate issues), and with the nature of the press being what it is, the chances of this all being discovered were pretty good to just about certain. Thus, had this all been exposed after Edwards obtained the nomination.. well, Mc Cain would be president, in my estimation. So, she as well as he went ahead with the campaign knowing about this possibility. Not brave, but stupid, and not, finally, for the good of the country, from the democrats point of view... but high risk activity. I don't like them for this. Of course, if a spouse fooling around would not be considered by the public as a rule out situation for the presidencial candidacy, this, um, charade, wouldn't have seemed necessary to the Edwards.


Absolutely. You're describing personal attributes that smack of self-indulgence and narcissism. In her interview with Matt Lauer, Mrs. Edwards stated:

MS. EDWARDS: You know, I guess there are all sorts of reasons [why I didn't leave him], but the big reason is that, you know, I promised I was with him for better or for worse. This was a lot worse than I had ever expected, but I thought, you know, that meant something when I said it. It still meant something. And, you know, it sounds odd, but except for this very big thing that he had done that was bad, I thought I was married -- believed and believe now that I was married to a magnificent man, you know, somebody who truly cared about other people.

. . .

MR. LAUER: Well, but it's -- I'd like your opinion on this. Sally Quinn writes, "She let him do it. She not only agreed to his run for the presidency. She encouraged him to do it, knowing the toll it would take on the family, given her health problems."

Maureen Dowd wrote this, and this is harsh.

"John Edwards' political career is over. Now St. Elizabeth has dragged him back into the public square for a flogging on Oprah and in Time and at bookstores near you." She goes on to write, "The book is just a gratuitous peek into their lives, and one that exposes their kids by exposing more dregs about their personal family life."

They're very different critiques.

MS. EDWARDS: They are very different, yeah. And so, in terms of responding, first of all, I agreed to write this book long before there was any stories about John's indiscretion. And I intended to write just a book about my experiences prior to that.

When I found out, and for a large part of writing the book, I only knew about a single night, a single moment of weakness. And that, though it was difficult to accept, you know, I could -- I certainly knew that most everybody who seeks to lead us, and most everybody who just seeks to be led, have weaknesses, moments of weakness in their lives. And I didn't think that that was a fatal flaw. But I was wrong.

MR. LAUER: So you're telling me that, had you known the whole truth, you might have decided not to write the book?

MS. EDWARDS: No, but I probably would have been more adamant about his not running than I was. His running -- the whole time he ran, I only knew of this one thing.


* * *

Mrs. Edwards' focus was clearly centered on herself and how her husband's alleged indiscretion affected her. She doesn't appear to consider how his infidelity (regardless if it was a one-time indiscretion or an affair) could derail a national campaign if her husband had won the Democrat party's nomination and squander the hopes of millions of Americans. If either Mr. or Mrs. Edwards truly cared about other people (more than themselves even though they think of themselves as "magnificent") and what was good for America, then they would not have embarked upon a run for the presidency.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:01 pm
@Debra Law,
Quote:
Mrs. Edwards' focus was clearly centered on herself and how her husband's alleged indiscretion affected her. She doesn't appear to consider how his infidelity (regardless if it was a one-time indiscretion or an affair) could derail a national campaign if her husband had won the Democrat party's nomination and squander the hopes of millions of Americans. If either Mr. or Mrs. Edwards truly cared about other people (more than themselves even though they think of themselves as "magnificent") and what was good for America, then they would not have embarked upon a run for the presidency


there is the whole universe of John Edward's staff and financial supporters..... her lying and allowing John to let all of these people work hard and give up wealth in support of a campaign that was ready (and almost certain) to implode from scandal at any time. Both John and Elizabeth are equally responsible for this. A fraud was perpetrated here.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:19 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
Wait a minute! You mean a wife supported her husband despite the fact that he was less than perfect?

OMG! What a bitch!


I realize that you can't take the time to read what I write before you blast away, given that you have some emotional based dislike for me. However, I said that she supporting her husband was noble, that what is not is her supporting him at first and then when she figures it is in her interest to change course then being disloyal to him and blasting away at him in public. Elizabeth spent most of her life supporting John, which was a worthwhile cause even if she was not a good enough judge of men to know that her man was not worthy of her support, but she ruined her life's work at the end.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:21 pm
@Debra Law,
I haven't read further responses to your post yet, Debra, but I do see the underlying thicket of pilloring (pillorying?) people for extramarital stuff (never mind homosexual trysts - famous book in the early sixties on that, will remember the name at some point as I've posted on it, a book by Allen Somebody) as contra possible good governance, extraneous as issue. I do get we want a certain level of both good sense and morality in our leaders, of course, but the morality, to me, should be about state issues. The day to dayness, the quotidian expanse of small and larger lies re sexual comfort.. what has this to do with world issues?

Well, one of these days I'd be glad if a presidential applicant didn't feel a need to lie on these matters to get by, and the US puritanical veil was broken.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:24 pm
@ossobuco,
Perhaps I had expectations of Elizabeth. Stares at self.

I'll reiterate that I'm not entirely unsympathetic, just not on board.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:31 pm
I don't get this sixx person either. But I'm used to that.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:21 pm
Quote:
Three Theories of E: Of course, Henneberger's thesis--that Elizabeth lives in a semi-delusional world of her own--is itself a form of exculpation. Elizabeth's in heavy denial, poor thing! But I'd say that, at best, the jury is still out on whether Elizabeth Edwards is 1) deluded (e.g., she actually believes the crap about how John "doesn't know any more than I do'' about whether he's the father of Rielle Hunter's daughter); 2) pretending to be deluded (e.g. she knows the truth but she's damned if she's going to admit it on her book tour); or 3) in it up to her eyeballs (i.e. she knows what she's saying is BS, but she's still actively covering up for John to further his ambitions as much as possible, given the circumstances).

How would saying she doesn't know if John's the father advance his interests under #3? That's easy. John hasn't said he doesn't know if he's the father. He has vehemently denied, in his televised Nightline "confession", that he could possibly be the father because he had ended the affair long before. ("I know that it's not possible that this child could be mine because of the timing of events, so I know it's not possible.") Admitting that he might be the father, and that this might be OK with his wife, is a useful halfway house on the road to confronting voters with the likely truth (he's the father and he lied about it even in his "confession.") If you were a PR agent retained by the Edwardses, this could well be the strategy you'd come up with.

That Elizabeth, in her current tour of interviews, doesn't even grapple with what now looks like his big Nightline lie--that he couldn't be the father--even as she substantively concedes it (by allowing that he could) gives support to view #3, no? Why isn't she more annoyed he lied on Nightline (and, presumably, to her)? Why ignore it? Come to think of it, Elizabeth herself once flat out denied, in one of her earlier damage control efforts, that John had fathered the child. Is delusion--at least non-clinical delusion--really the most plausible explanation for the seamless, unremarked shift in Elizabeth's own line---from righteous allegations of "wrongly alleged" to the solipsistic "whatever the facts are it doesn't change my life"? The shift fits awfully comfortably into the PR template for political survival famously sketched out by James Boyd--'Admit what is known. Deny what is unknown ....'

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/kausfiles/

The problem with this theory is that everyone is in agreement that Johns political career is over, it can not be rehabilitated. Delusion is possible though.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:28 pm
But wait - I don't care all that much - though a little - about all that.

I'm more interested in the political orchestration/manipulation part of the scenario, and, as said, why anyone thinks that is necessary. It reminds me of those english temporary art extraavaganzas, or, as more commonly known, trial balloons.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:35 pm
@aidan,
The trial balloon stuff is interesting, maybe.

My own take on it is just, she enjoys being a public figure. The interviews, the book tours, interacting with people. She doesn't have a lot of avenues available to her, really, at this point. She's not the wife of a currently serving politician, and she can't really run for office herself (maybe she can, maybe she will). I imagine this is a more viable middle ground for continuing to be a public figure, though. Write a book. Have a reason to give speeches, go on tour, interact with people.

It sounds like she is usually very good at that, and I can understand wanting to do what you're good at until you can't anymore. As opposed to just holing oneself up and waiting.

This is not to lionize her, either -- I very much agree with Osso re: the stupidity of Edwards for running for president with that huge skeleton in his closet, and I am annoyed at both of them for that. Just, I can see reasonable motivations for why she chose to write -- or go ahead with writing -- this book now.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:42 pm
@sozobe,
Quote:
My own take on it is just, she enjoys being a public figure. The interviews, the book tours, interacting with people. She doesn't have a lot of avenues available to her, really, at this point. She's not the wife of a currently serving politician, and she can't really run for office herself (maybe she can, maybe she will). I imagine this is a more viable middle ground for continuing to be a public figure, though. Write a book. Have a reason to give speeches, go on tour, interact with people


the weakness of your theory is that if that is what she wanted there were available to her a boat load of NGO's, most notably those devoted to cancer and death with dignity, that would have loved to have her work for them. She could have been fighting for a cause and had a very active public life without shoveling the mess that is her personal live and her husband's former political life.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
Well, there are public figures and there are public figures. Interviews on the Today Show are probably harder to come by for those who toil earnestly in the nonprofit sector.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 05:53 pm
@sozobe,
My reference to english art process was pretty off the wall, but most of you know me, I'm no mistress of logic as a set piece, but usually something triggers my musing.

Back in a bit, after I try to recoup what I meant, exactly.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 06:05 pm
@ossobuco,
Linking this ref is harder than I thought, bats head against monitor.
Off to look up my own old threads.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 06:19 pm
@ossobuco,
But, I remember the name, Allan, Allen, or Alan Drury, probably the first.

Back to looking up the serpentine link.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 06:53 pm
@ossobuco,
Ok, some time later, I'll show up with this link - re trial balloons.
Often fine as short term edifices..

http://www.tropolism.com/2006/04/oma_at_serpentine_gallery.php

Of value for that..
0 Replies
 
 

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