Free cars for poor fuel road rage

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Gov. Deval Patrick’s free wheels for welfare recipients program is revving up despite the stalled economy, as the keys to donated cars loaded with state-funded insurance, repairs and even AAA membership are handed out to get them to work.

But the program - fueled by a funding boost despite the state’s fiscal crash - allows those who end up back on welfare to keep the cars anyway.

“It’s mind-boggling. You’ve got people out there saying, ‘I just lost my job. Hey, can I get a free car, too?’ ” said House Minority Leader Brad Jones (R-North Reading).

The Patrick administration decided last month to funnel an additional $30,000 to the nearly $400,000 annual car ownership program.

The program, which is provided by the State Department of Transitional Assistance, gives out about 65 cars a year, said DTA Commissioner Julia Kehoe.

The state pays for the car’s insurance, inspection, excise tax, title, registration, repairs and a AAA membership for one year at a total cost of roughly $6,000 per car.

The program, which started in 2006, distributes cars donated by non-profit charities such as Good News Garage, a Lutheran charity, which also does the repair work on the car and bills the state.

Kehoe defended the program, saying the state breaks even by cutting welfare payments to the family - about $6,000 a year.

“If you look at the overall picture, this helps make sure people aren’t staying on cash assistance. It’s a relatively short payment for a long-term benefit,” Kehoe said.

But Kehoe admitted about 20 percent of those who received a car ended up back on welfare, and while they lose the insurance and other benefits, they don’t have to return the car.

“Given the state’s fiscal condition, paying for AAA and auto inspection costs is outrageous,” said Senate Minority Leader Richard Tisei (R-Wakefield). “There are so many families out there trying to deal with layoffs and pay cuts. You have to wonder what the state’s priorities are at this point.”

Applicants for cars must have a job or prove they could get one if they had the car in order to qualify. Once they have the wheels, they must send DTA their pay stubs to prove they are employed.

To get the cars, they must be unable to reach work by public transportation and have a clean driving record. The program is only available to families on welfare with children.

Kehoe said the bulk of cars go to places with less public transportation, such as Fitchburg, New Bedford and Lowell.

“I can’t believe there are no restrictions on how they use the car,” Jones said. “I just don’t see this as a core function of government.”

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/2009_05_07_Free_cars_for_poor_fuel_road_rage/srvc=home&position=also

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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 2,626 • Replies: 38

@Woiyo9,

Well, not everyone living in the U.S. is fortunate enough to have busses and subways, or light-rail lines to get to work, or even to shop for groceries.

I never begrudge those that get freebies, since no one annointed me to stand in judgement of others.

1 Reply

@Woiyo9,

Woiyo9 wrote:

The program, which started in 2006, distributes cars donated by non-profit charities such as Good News Garage, a Lutheran charity, which also does the repair work on the car and bills the state.

Kehoe defended the program, saying the state breaks even by cutting welfare payments to the family - about $6,000 a year.

So, just to get this straight: the cars are provided by private charities, and the state breaks even by reducing welfare payments by the amount it pays for insurance and other expenses.

Is that about right?

So why the outrage? Because some welfare recipients get to keep the cars? So what? The cars were provided by charities, not by the state. And the state doesn't pay anything after the first year, when it had already recouped the amount it paid out. What am I missing here?

3 Replies

@joefromchicago,

poor people get something helpful for free, and Woiya does not...

0 Replies

@Woiyo9,

Why wouldn't you just give them a T pass?

Especially seeing in light of today's news report that taking public transportation would save you over $12k a year.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Yes - but most of Mass area does have this.

0 Replies

@joefromchicago,

Have you ever purchased insurance in MA? It is very expensive - not to mention public transportation is supposed to be encouraged.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

“Given the state’s fiscal condition, paying for AAA and auto inspection costs is outrageous,” said Senate Minority Leader Richard Tisei (R-Wakefield). “There are so many families out there trying to deal with layoffs and pay cuts. You have to wonder what the state’s priorities are at this point.”

Free car, free food, free housing, free medical.

Why are you working? Become a ward of the State and live for free at the working mans expense.

Where is the incentive to improve yourself?

See, if you widen the scope of your thinking ability, you might just get to see a pattern here. Of couse, I expect to much from you I suppose. Rolling Eyes

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

Have you ever purchased insurance in MA? It is very expensive - not to mention public transportation is supposed to be encouraged.

Read the article. You'll find out that: (1) the money spent by the state equalled the amount saved from lower welfare payments -- financially, it was a wash for the state; and (2) the program was geared toward people who lived in areas where there wasn't much public transportation available.

1 Reply

@Linkat,

I found the actual information on line - I found out they have to be unable to reach work by public transportation - under those circumstances and under the circumstances they have to submit pay stubs I don't have an issue with this program.

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@Woiyo9,

Woiyo9 wrote:

“Given the state’s fiscal condition, paying for AAA and auto inspection costs is outrageous,” said Senate Minority Leader Richard Tisei (R-Wakefield). “There are so many families out there trying to deal with layoffs and pay cuts. You have to wonder what the state’s priorities are at this point.”

The state pays $6000 for car insurance and related costs and saves $6000 on welfare payments. Total cost to the state for this program: $0. Again, I don't see anything here except manufactured outrage.

Woiyo9 wrote:

Free car, free food, free housing, free medical.

Why are you working? Become a ward of the State and live for free at the working mans expense.

And still be poor? No thanks.

Woiyo9 wrote:

Where is the incentive to improve yourself?

See, if you widen the scope of your thinking ability, you might just get to see a pattern here. Of couse, I expect to much from you I suppose.

I didn't realize that there were still some conservative cave-dwellers out there who still thought that welfare recipients live in luxury on the taxpayer's dime. I thought that went out of style after Reagan's war on "welfare queens." Thanks for setting the record straight, Woiyo. You're a credit to your race.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

It was just a coincidence that today, I read an article stating that it costs $12k more a year on average to drive to work than use public transportation (which is actually a crock of bullsh*t). Maybe if you only needed a bus (cheapest mode) and could walk to the busstop (not drive and park at the subway or train) is it that much cheaper and even then the difference is suspect. $12k would be $50/day to park/gas. Seeing you already need insurance if you own a car the only additional cost is the extra gas and parking.

1 Reply

@Linkat,

I seriously feel sorry for you people. $12k more to drive than take public transportation? I bought my Focus in 2003 for about five bucks under $11,000 total. Insurance runs roughly $500.00 per year, and gas about $350.00. In five years, I've replaced four tires, one egr tube, and one set of front brake pads. Try as I will, I can't come up with $12,000, and couldn't even if it were tax deductable.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

Get your ******* head out of your ass .

There are families in this country who are now 2nd and 3rd generation welfare recipients. Lazy is hard to break (so is stupid).

Clinton had the best idea with his welfare to work program. It expired in 2004, and now we are seeing more and more giveaways to the lazy for vote gathering purposes.

1 Reply

@Woiyo9,

Woiyo9 wrote:

Get your ******* head out of your ass .

No, you get your head out of your ass! (pretty snappy comeback, eh? I learned that from the Waterboy)

Woiyo9 wrote:

There are families in this country who are now 2nd and 3rd generation welfare recipients. Lazy is hard to break (so is stupid).

I don't doubt it. But then that has very little to do with the car program in Massachusetts.

1 Reply

@roger,

The $12k is a total lie. It is to encourage people to take public transportation. To be honest, it is cheaper for me to drive and pay for parking than take public transportation. I do get subsized parking so I pay about $100 or $120/month. I live about 10 miles away so the gas isn't too bad and I'd need a car any way so I would still need the insurance and maintenance.

To pay for parking at the subway station it would cost me $140/month and then the monthly subway pass is $59/month so the parking at the station alone is more.

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

The $12k is a total lie. It is to encourage people to take public transportation. To be honest, it is cheaper for me to drive and pay for parking than take public transportation. I do get subsized parking so I pay about $100 or $120/month. I live about 10 miles away so the gas isn't too bad and I'd need a car any way so I would still need the insurance and maintenance.

To pay for parking at the subway station it would cost me $140/month and then the monthly subway pass is $59/month so the parking at the station alone is more.

It's based on averages - surely many people drive 30-50 miles a day in their commute, or more - but that number seems pretty high.

Public transportation cost estimates probably don't include the cost of you driving to and parking at the subway station.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

I'm sure it doesn't, but it should be if they include the cost of parking if you drive the total way - again it should be an average.

The lowest cost of public transportation is the bus. That lowest monthly cost for just a local bus which would mean not commuting in and out of Boston would be $40/month. The most expensive monthly pass is a zone 8 commuter rail at $149/month. So even assuming that you do not park and can walk to either of these a rough average would be $95/month. This is if you do not include commuter boats as they go over $200 month.

Even if you do not have subsidized parking like me - you can park as low as $200/month (as long as you work in downtown Boston) - there are lots in South Boston where they provide free shuttle to downtown or you could walk the mile. Without even including the commuter boats, how does a $100 more a month translate to $1k more a month on average. I cannot imagine even driving 30 or more miles a day would translate into $1k for gas?

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

I'm sure it doesn't, but it should be if they include the cost of parking if you drive the total way - again it should be an average.

The lowest cost of public transportation is the bus. That lowest monthly cost for just a local bus which would mean not commuting in and out of Boston would be $40/month. The most expensive monthly pass is a zone 8 commuter rail at $149/month. So even assuming that you do not park and can walk to either of these a rough average would be $95/month. This is if you do not include commuter boats as they go over $200 month.

Even if you do not have subsidized parking like me - you can park as low as $200/month (as long as you work in downtown Boston) - there are lots in South Boston where they provide free shuttle to downtown or you could walk the mile. Without even including the commuter boats, how does a $100 more a month translate to $1k more a month on average. I cannot imagine even driving 30 or more miles a day would translate into $1k for gas?

I assume that they are including higher upkeep and insurance costs than are being reported by many people's actual lives. Once again, averages mean that all those folks who have 25 and 30k cars are driving the monthly payment average up; the insurance average up, and the upkeep. Plus repairs for wrecks, etc..

I agree that 12k however sounds like too much. The basic point is correct though; I don't own a car at all, and save a considerable amount of money every year that I don't buy one.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

I know cars are expensive - but most of these people would own cars any way. Unless you live right in the city, you would need to drive to go to the grocery store, etc to get anything. The only people I know who do not own a car whether they use public transportation or not for work are those that live right in Boston or maybe in the towns surrounding it - that are very "city-like". And the rents and prices of homes/condos/apartments are significantly higher than living where you would need a car so there is a "wash".

The $12k is not realistic. For most there is a higher price - but it is not near what the stats say. This is simply propaganda for public transportation - especially since the prices are most likely going up again soon.

1 Reply

Free cars for poor fuel road rage

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