edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 09:52 am
I swiped that cartoon from pdiddie's blog.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 10:03 am
@genoves,
obviously the data thatwas reffered to was a "Bell curve" developed by first derivative methods from the base numbers. You are talking about variation of the "rate" of variation.
I was a colleague of the guys from U Del who wrote the book. They were laughed out of the ring by the "real Mathematicians and statistitians". I hear you took a course in stats genovese. I dont teach min ing stats anymore (Krigging, variograms, spectral analyses, and factor and trend surface tricks mostly). Stats are like any other TOOL, they must be ell understood before paraded out to the world. SOmeone else who understands of what you speak will probably not be so kind.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 11:05 am
@farmerman,
Tim Beardsley in Scientific American:

For Whom the Bell Curve Really Tolls:

A tendentious tome abuses science to promote far-right policies

Rarely do 800-page books crammed with graphs reach best-seller lists. "The Bell Curve," an inflammatory treatise about class, intelligence and race by the late Richard J. Herrnstein, a psychology professor at Harvard University who died last September, and political scientist Charles Murray of the American Enterprise Institute, is an exception. The book's deeply pessimistic analysis of U.S. social woes, together with its conservative policy prescriptions, has hit a nerve.

Publishing "The Bell Curve" may have been a calculated political move on the part of its authors. As the country lurches to the right, many people will be seduced by the text's academic trappings and scientific tone into believing its arguments and political inferences well supported. Those readers should think again.

"The Bell Curve" depicts a frightening future in which, absent strong corrective measures, a "cognitive elite" will live in guarded enclaves distant from the dull masses. Opportunities for the underclass will become limited as tolerance evaporates. Strict policing will be widely accepted, and racial hostility will likely spread. The least intelligent denizens of this dystopia will be consigned to a "high-tech and more lavish version of the Indian reservation."

This apocalyptic vision is presented as the consequence of unpalatable, undeniable "facts" about inheritance and intelligence. But the thesis rests on curiously twisted logic. Its authors have been highly selective in the evidence they present and in their interpretation of ambiguous statistics. The work is "a string of half-truths," states Christopher Jencks, a sociologist at Northwestern University.

The arguments stem from the same tradition of biological determinism that led, not so long ago, to compulsory sterilizations in the U.S. and genocide elsewhere. The notion is that individuals' characteristics are both essentially fixed by inheritance and immune to alteration by the environment. Efforts to help those who are unfortunate by reason of their genes are unlikely to be rewarded. Solutions, therefore, should include those Murray has long advocated: abolish welfare, reduce affirmative action and simplify criminal law.

Herrnstein and Murray produce data suggesting that intelligence--as assessed by a high IQ score--is increasingly important to economic success. They also argue that people who have low scores--including disproportionate numbers of blacks--are more likely than others are to fall prey to social ills. The two accept evidence from studies of twins reared apart that there is a large heritable component to IQ scores: they estimate it to be 60 percent. The writers declare themselves agnostic on the question of whether racial differences in IQ scores are genetic, although they are clearly inclined to favor that possibility.

Herrnstein and Murray countenance that just because a trait has a heritable origin does not mean it is unchangeable. Nearsightedness is one example of an inherited, modifiable condition. But they decide, on the basis of a questionable look at the data, that "an inexpensive, reliable method of raising IQ is not available." This conclusion is used to justify an attack on programs aimed at helping society's most vulnerable: the authors prefer to let the genetically disadvantaged find their own level. Evidence that does not accord with Herrnstein and Murray's way of thinking--such as the observation that IQ scores worldwide are slowly increasing--is acknowledged then ignored.

Leaving aside the substantial and unresolved issue of whether a single number can adequately summarize mental performance, "The Bell Curve" plays fast and loose with statistics in several ways. According to Arthur Goldberger, an econometrician at the University of Wisconsin who has studied genetics and IQ, the book exaggerates the ability of IQ to predict job performance. Herrnstein and Murray assert that scores have an impressive "validity" of about 0.4 in such predictions. They report that the Armed Forces Qualification Test, an IQ surrogate, has a validity of 0.62 at anticipating the success of training for mechanical jobs. Yet many of the measures used to assess validity include supervisors' ratings, which are subject to bias, Goldberger notes. Furthermore, the validities that the duo see as so revealing are, in fact, hypothetical quantities that no employer would expect to find in prospective employees. "It's really bad stuff," Goldberger says.

Other correlations that the writers establish between social ills and low IQ scores are equally suspect. Herrnstein and Murray put great weight on comparisons between the ability of IQ scores and parental socioeconomic status to predict what will happen to young people. Yet the measures of socioeconomic status they use cannot ensure that homes are equally stimulating. The point is crucial because numerous studies have demonstrated that early childhood surroundings have a large role in molding IQ scores--certainly more studies than have indicated a significant role for heredity. Consequently, conclusions about the dominance of IQ cannot be taken at face value. Leon Kamin, a psychologist at Northeastern University and well-known critic of research on intelligence, maintains that interactions between genes and environment make attempts to weigh nature against nurture "meaningless."

Herrnstein and Murray's hereditarian bias is also obvious in their account of a study of 100 children from varying ethnic backgrounds who were adopted into white families. The study got under way in the 1970s. At age seven, the black and interracial children scored an average of 106 on IQ tests--considerably better than the national average of black children and close to levels scored by white children. A decade later researchers Sandra Scarr of the University of Virginia and Richard A. Weinberg of the University of Minnesota found that the IQs of the black children had declined to 89, whereas those of white adoptees had fallen from 112 to 106.

Scarr and Weinberg concluded that racially based discrimination at school probably explained the drop in the black youngsters' scores. Jencks agrees: "The results are perfectly consistent with the difference being due to something in the early home environment and, for older kids, their experience in school." But Herrnstein and Murray interpret the findings differently: "Whatever the environmental impact may have been, it cannot have been large."

"The Bell Curve's" most egregious failing, however, may be its bleak assessment of educational efforts to improve the intellectual performance of children from deprived backgrounds. Herrnstein and Murray cast a jaundiced eye over Head Start and other more intensive efforts for at-risk youngsters--projects that have been claimed to produce long-lasting gains in IQ, a possibility that would not square well with biological determinist thought. Herrnstein and Murray downplay such results, noting that such interventions are too expensive to be widely used. The only one they are enthusiastic about is adoption, which, paradoxically, they accept as having a clearly positive effect on IQ. "Their treatment of intervention wouldn't be accepted by an academic journal--it's that bad," exclaims Richard Nisbett, a psychology professor at the University of Michigan. "I'm distressed by the extent to which people assume [Murray] is playing by the rules."

Jencks is also unhappy with the book's conclusions about education. "Herrnstein and Murray are saying Head Start didn't have a profound effect. But that doesn't tell us that we couldn't do a lot better if we had a different society," he says. "In Japan, for example, children learn more math than they do in the U.S. because everybody there agrees math is important."

Scarr, who accepts a substantial role for heredity in individual IQ differences, insists that efforts to boost intellectual functioning in disadvantaged youth can deliver results. "There's no question that rescuing children from desperately awful circumstances will improve their performance," she notes.

Scarr also points out that ameliorating a child's environment may reduce social problems, regardless of its effect on IQ. "The low-IQ group deserves a lot more support than it is getting," she argues. "Other societies manage not to have the same levels of social ills as we do." Edward F. Zigler, a prominent educational psychologist at Yale University, asserts that "in terms of everyday social competence, we have overwhelming evidence that high-quality early education is beneficial."

Therein lies the fatal flaw in Herrnstein and Murray's harsh reasoning. Even though boosting IQ scores may be difficult and expensive, providing education can help individuals in other ways. That fact, not IQ scores, is what policy should be concerned with. "The Bell Curve's" fixation on IQ as the best statistical predictor of a life's fortunes is a myopic one. Science does not deny the benefits of a nurturing environment and a helping hand.--Tim Beardsley

Tim Beardsley is Senior Writer at Human Genome Sciences in Rockville, Maryland, published in many scientific journals with an MBA from Boston University where he was Beta Gamma Sigma, MS, Biomedical Engineering Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, University of Notre Dame
BS, Mechanical Engineering

SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN January 1995 Volume 272 Number 1 Page 14
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 05:45 pm
@farmerman,
I really cannot follow you, farmerman.

l. "the data that was reffered"

I do not know how data can be reffered. It might be referred, but not reffered/

2. You give me no information on why the concept of Bell Curve, or, as I posited in my post, STANDARD DEVIATIONS.

3. You reference "guys from U Del who "wrote the book"?

Which Book? Are you talking about "The Bell Curve"?
I certainly hope that you know that the authors of the Bell Curve, Richard J. Herrnstein and Charles Murray are NOT from U Del. Herrnstein was a professor ( now deceased) in Psychology at Harvard and Murray is a PHD from MIT.

You say "that stats must be ell? understood before paraded out to the world"

What you are saying is that a professor from Harvard and a MIT graduate DO NOT "ell"? understand statistics?

You still have not answered my question--I will repeat it--


What do you mean by "forcing data", Farmerman?

Any good Statistics texbook shows Bell Curves. See "Statistics" by William L. Hays-Pub. by Holt, Rinehart and Winston---1963 PP. 90-91.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 04:48 am
@genoves,
Im sorry, I was incorrect, The psych statistics group , headed by L Gotlefsen were the folks that published the manifesto that provided information on the mass of errors in the book. Murray , I believe had been at U of D briefly and it was Gottlefsen that Id seen at various seminars etc. She was on the faculty at a sociology /psychology lab.
Murray, I dont believe, was a statistician at all. He had very little cred in the use of the math as I recall and he was often at debates doing the heavy lifting since his co-author did die in the early 80s.

The issue and theses of the book was always , as SJ Gould stated in , "The Mismeasure of Man" one of conclusions derived from blatant racism. Population Genetics presents the application of statistics to biochemical and morphological reactions including sociological changes in human populations.Geneticists saw no methodology for the transfer of such a flawed Hardy Weinberg distribution of IQ based upon single race numbers.

Gould came out and put a series of door slamming essays about the book and , since then, it has been fairly quiet. Im not aware that the text is even recognized as authoratative .


When I commented on "A bell curve" (not the book) my comment was simply based upon statistical tricks where the "Bell Curve" is not generated by Std Deviations but on first and second derivatives of deltas "between" two or more data sets. This is a frequent trick done by populational geneticists and engineering to show minor characteristics to be more important than they are.

In statistics the rule is"If there is no pattern immediately visible, dont try to create on with slicing and dicing."

0 Replies
 
jioday
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 12:09 pm
@Lightwizard,
Everyone who reads The Bell Curve should, immediately after read The Mismeasure of Man by S.J. Gould.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 12:32 pm
@jioday,
actually everyone should read S.J. Gould.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 03:45 pm
Wow, this thread is no bullshit.

Quote:
Gallup: GOP Falls With Nearly Every Group, Down To Conservative, Church-Going Base
By Eric Kleefeld - May 18, 2009, 5:00PM

A new analysis by Gallup, compiled from their national polling done all this year, shows just how extensive the Republican Party's drop in voter self-identification has been, with decreases in nearly every demographic.

Compared to 2001, when George W. Bush first took office as president, GOP self-identification has fallen by ten points among college graduates, nine points among those 18-29 years of age, nine points in the Midwest, six in the East, five in the West, and even four points in the South. Married people identifying as Republicans have decreased by five points, and the difference is eight points among the unmarried. The list goes on and on.

In 2001, voters were 33% Democratic, 32% Republican, and 34% independent, with a Republican edge of 47%-46% after leaners were pushed. But now, it's 36% Democrats, 27% Republicans and 37% independents, with a huge Democratic advantage of 52%-37% with leaners.

The only bright spots for the GOP are three base groups: Frequent churchgoers, with no decrease at all; conservatives, with only a one-point decrease; and voters 65 years of age or older, with a one-point decrease. It should also be noted that they've only gone down one point among non-whites -- but this is because they didn't have much party identification there to begin with.


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/gallup-gop-falls-with-nearly-every-group-down-to-conservative-church-going-base.php

Yeouch

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Woiyo9
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 06:09 am
"Happiness is a complex thing. Past studies have found that happiness is partly inherited, that Republicans are happier than Democrats, and that old men tend to be happier than old women.

And even before the economy got nasty, seniors were found to be generally happier than Baby Boomers. Some of that owes to the American Dream being lived by past generations, while Boomers work two jobs and watch the dream wither.

In times like this, it's clear how age can have its advantages. While not all seniors are weathering the recession well, for many the impact is much less severe than it is for younger people.

Why? Many people 65 and older retired and downsized their lifestyles before the economy imploded, according to Pew analysts. Most aren't raising kids and many are not so worried about being laid off. Loss of income can be, of course, a source of stress and displeasure. (While money doesn't buy happiness, a study in February showed cash can help, especially when people use it to do stuff instead of buy things.)

If you're thinking that Republicans are happy just because they perhaps make more money, that does not seem to be the case. The study that found Republicans to be happier than Democrats also showed that it held true even after adjusting for income.

It's those age 50-64 who've "seen their nest eggs shrink the most and their anxieties about retirement swell the most," the Pew survey found. It also finds that younger adults (ages 18-49) "have taken the worst lumps in the job market but remain relatively upbeat about their financial future."

Not everyone in any category is blissful, of course. Other research has shown that happiness in old age depends largely on attitude factors such as optimism and coping strategies. Add financial planning to the list.

In the new Pew telephone survey, taken in March and April of 2,969 adults, here's how many respondents in each age group said they had cut back on spending in the past year:
* 18-49: 68 percent
* 50-64: 59 percent
* 65+: 36 percent.

And is the recession causing stress in your family?

* 18-49: 52 percent
* 50-64: 58 percent
* 65+: 38 percent.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090518/sc_livescience/happinessisbeingoldmaleandrepublican

Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 07:23 am
I guess the Limbaugh, Gingrich, and Steele GOP leadership is slipping, as indicated in the polls.

Regarding who is happier, it might be a case of one group reveling in their ignorance.
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 07:38 am
@Advocate,
Quote:
Regarding who is happier, it might be a case of one group reveling in their ignorance.


Really? Is that what you think of Senior citizens who worked hard all their lives?

What exactly are they ignorant of?
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 07:50 am
I'm not really up on political history, but I don't remember seeing any particular political going out of favor to such a degree so quickly before. Is that just because I don't remember it, or is this level of dissatisfaction with the GOP unusual historically?

0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 10:09 am
@Woiyo9,
I think that conservatives revel in their ignorance of the damage that has been done to our country, as well as its bleak future. We don't make anything anymore, and are being trumped by Asian countries on many, if not most, things. The conservatives, who constantly protect the super-wealthy individuals and corporations, don't realize that they are dupes willing to accept the few crumbs that fall their way. They fail to see the growing plutocracy in this country. But, they are happier.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 10:09 am
@Woiyo9,
Quote:
that Republicans are happier than Democrats, and that old men tend to be happier than old women.


1.Sure, GOP created the mess and then disappeared from view so they could be blissful AND ignorant.\


2 We get hard of hearing as we age so we get blissful PEACE!
0 Replies
 
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 06:20 am
@Advocate,
And you only blame Republicans for the problems ?

You surely are one naive person. Do you really vote?
Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 07:46 am
@Woiyo9,
Were you in seclusion during the Bush years?
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 07:49 am
@Advocate,
No.

However, it seems you are either stupid or have been brainwashed (a small rinse in your case) by the democratic party into believing only republicans are responsible everything "wrong" with this Nation.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 08:00 am
@Woiyo9,
what percent of blame do you assign to the Dems v GOP in the last 8 yars. Lets talk of specific legislation and exec ruling.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 09:42 am
@farmerman,
Holding back to wait it out for Bush's intent to slit his own political throat?

"One of the very difficult parts of the decision I made on the financial crisis was to use hardworking people's money to help prevent there to be a crisis." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 12, 2009
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 10:08 am
@Woiyo9,
There were a few stupid Dems over the years. However, the Reps had complete control for six years, and almost complete control for eight years, when all the damage was done.

Do you think that trailer-trash Sarah will redeem your party?
 

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