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What is spirituality?

 
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 02:27 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

As I remember it, "neurosis" is defined as "interfering with normal activities", the issue being "what constitutes normality"? From one academic perspective, the various facets of "self" might be acquired through different social contexts, and some of these might be antagonistic to each other. No doubt Freud would have argued for compartmentalization of such antagonists (I've forgotten his technical vocabulary for this). However the problem still arises as to which of these facets(or even separate "selves") is going to be deemed to be "normal" since with their original contexts all would be. It is only when two facets surface together (as in sexuality and religious observence) that problems of interference might occur.

One esoteric (aspiring spiritual) view of the above comes from Gurdjieff who claims that multifaceted selves are the norm. Such an individual has no hope of transcending his argumentative committee of inner voices. It is only by "observing such selves" that stable "higher consciousness" can evolve. i.e. In Freudian terms we may all be bordering on "the neurotic" !


You are confusing the symptom with the disease, which I admit is very general... The other interesting thing was the extent to which neurotics were troubled by memories, literally stuck in the past, not able to get at some repressed painful event through memories which had been deliberatly walled off from consciousness...

And your last line is certainly true, as it was in his own time... No matter what you think the main product of modern society is, it produces mental illness far beyond the capacity of society to cure, catch, or treat... Rather than address the fact that we are dominated by irrationality that often injures and maims humanity, we celebrate that fact in law and government and religion...

My only hope is that our general madness will some day be expressed in revolution, but God, if there is one; Save us from the terrors such madness could find expression in... No one but us is ever going to make us well, and whether it is revolution or civil war, our general dis-ease is likely to tear this place to pieces...
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 05:35 am
@Fido,
Suggestion:
Read up on Evans-Pritchards study of the Azande. It tends to put Freud in his place, so-to-speak.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 06:10 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Suggestion:
Read up on Evans-Pritchards study of the Azande. It tends to put Freud in his place, so-to-speak.

Anthropology??? I like that... The only sort of problem I have with it is this: Primitive peoples encountering a new culture often suffer a lot of stress that causes neurosis in their lives and behavior... They often have traditional cures that touch the cause of disease in dis-ease... I think what Freud was seeing, and many others were seeing at the time was that the formation of large nation states and rapid industrialization devalue humanity and add to anxiety and uncertainty and give rise to neurosis as never before... I cannot say what is current thinking on the subject; but there is no want of mental illness anywhere, even in positions of power...Our prisons are full, and law must turn away those who truly need to be rehabilitated...And many mentally challenged people are on the street... I think we are working our way up to world war, civil war, or revolution, and all because we cannot find meaning inividually...
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Sep, 2010 04:53 am
@fresco,
In Freudian terms we are either all neurotic or in jail/madhouse or not been caught yet. Civilisation and Its Discontents. Civilisation makes people sick.

Then there's Reich.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Sep, 2010 05:38 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

In Freudian terms we are either all neurotic or in jail/madhouse or not been caught yet. Civilisation and Its Discontents. Civilisation makes people sick.

Then there's Reich.

I think civilization/culture as the Germans call it, is a step toward wellness, but it can go back the other way...Rome and Greece in their decline and fall were simply mad, and some of it can be put on lead which they used in great qualntity and literally blanketed the earth with in their smelting.... But all forms in their breakdown and decline are terrible and sad in the damage they do and the victims they create... They consume themselves as we see Western Society consuming itself, being replaced in this world by dark skinned immigrants, unnable to stop the tide or hold their ground.... But as sickness goes and madness too; nothing compares to the condition of primitives who all live in a bizzare world of ignorance and beliefs -given life and terror by their fears... It is likely that left to themselves, that such people were much less ill, but when primitives had their whole worlds tramatized by contact with advanced strangers from Europe, their neurosis floated to the surface for all to see...

Look at the madness of the dark and middle ages in Europe... The unschooled mind, and the unscientific man is capable of any outrage against humanity... What we should not forget is that civilization too can become a mask for all of our ignorance and prejudice, and that we can behave, act out of our ignorance, fears, and pain, just as the cultured people of Germany once did, with the support of one or more of their noted philosophers... The form and formal behavior can conceal so much of madness, and when the form can no longer control the neurosis, the pent up frustrations of an ignorant people can master them...

And look at us... We may have more than primitives, but life is no more certain, and for our lives we work longer and with less social reward than primitives... There is only one good reason why people are reverting, really, digressing into older forms like magic and religion, spirituality and fate for guidence of their lives which really make them the slaves of charismatics no less ignorant or more sane than themselves.... We do not know the blessing of technology and knowledge... We have not went to the moon... A few people have went, and now people can hold in their hand more technology than was in the whole expedition to the moon, but is that a true blessing, or benefit to them???...

How many of us actually understand the technology we hold, the computers we use, that use us as much as we use them???... It is not ours until we master it, and much of it from nuclear bombs to cell phones is at the service of people governed by belief, prejudice, and ignorance... One President has taken the country to war with a whim, with no more support than religious reactionaries could give him, and he found it was enough...And no one asks: What part in a democratic, rational government should those who reject reason and pray for the last days hold???

They have the show of civilization, but not the substance, and the substance is only enjoyed by a few; and that substance would be, to not suffer want, or fear, or ignorance, or hate; and those who can say they know this hope as reality are fewer and fewer because where the poor must live with uncertainty the rich must too... Where the world suffers insecurity at our hands we must suffer at theirs... Where the poor know slavery so must the rich suffer slavery... We are dragging ourselves into another dark age where the edifices of luxury and opulence cannot be supported by the foundation of poor and uneducated.... It is madness...
0 Replies
 
Elshami
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 04:44 am
@The Pentacle Queen,
Meditation is only for the well being of a person. To increase focus, mental health, breathing aswell, and I forgot what else... certainly you can see how jolly it can make a person being clear minded and emptied of worry. Its goal is to be able to let go of emotions at will for the sake of doing the right thing whatever your right or wrong is.
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lavanya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 11:51 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
If you want the whole essence in one line
"Knowing Your self " is Spirituality
0 Replies
 
 

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