18

# One morning in Mexico....

CalamityJane

1
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 08:52 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown, you're as blue eyed as can be.
Since 2004, over 200 Americans were killed in Mexico, the statistics of Americans robbed, beaten, raped, and violated is horrendously high as well.
Only 20 percent of murders result in an arrest in Mexico.

From my very own experience: I got stopped and threatened by the Mexican
police for some bogus traffic violation and they demanded money.

Here is a good article to the fact
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29095730/

ebrown p

2
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 09:13 am
@CalamityJane,
CJ,

Your statistic; 200 Americans killed in 5 years is not that different than mine, 40 Americans in 1 year.

Again I will point out that given that 6 million Americans go to Mexico each year... one's chances of being killed are about 1 in 100,000 which is 10 times greater than your chances of getting in a fatal car crash this year.

The murder rate in Ottawa is higher than 1 in 100,000-- given that that is for the year rather than one trip... But it is correct to say that a person living for a year in Ottowa Canada has as much chance of being killed as an American taking a trip to Mexico.

My point is that your fear is not justified by statistics. I would suggest that living in fear based on a few anecdotal stories is not a good way to enjoy life.

Statistically speaking, a trip to Mexico (provided you aren't going for drugs or visiting one of a few risky places) is not that dangerous compared to other things that rational people (including yourself) might do.

ebrown p

2
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 09:23 am
@ebrown p,
Correction: your chances of getting killed in a fatal car crash this year are 10 times greater than the chances that an American will be killed during a trip to Mexico.

1
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:07 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
The murder rate in Ottawa is higher than 1 in 100,000-- given that that is for the year rather than one trip... But it is correct to say that a person living for a year in Ottowa Canada has as much chance of being killed as an American taking a trip to Mexico.

Well, that's quite an apples-to-oranges comparison.

How about if we calculate the risk of a week's vacation in Mexico vs. a week's vacation in Disneyland?
0 Replies

Mame

1
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:22 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Correction: your chances of getting killed in a fatal car crash this year are 10 times greater than the chances that an American will be killed during a trip to Mexico.

That is idiotic. The point is not the likelihood of you dying in a car crash on vacation, but the amount of danger you might be in. Get real.

The likelihood of you being accosted on a street in Mexico is probably greater than it happening in Ottawa. There are no travel advisories out about visiting Canada, but there are recent ones from both the US and Canada about visiting Mexico.

Just because you know of towns where it is safe to visit in Mexico doesn't mean that the risk isn't real elsewhere there. I have never been accosted there, but as I said, I am more leery about visiting Mexico since the violence has escalated. It seems the police and the government are not able to control it.

I don't know why you're arguing; it's common knowledge that violence has escalated. There are stories everywhere about tourists being robbed and injured, if not killed.
OmSigDAVID

2
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:25 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Besides, there is very little that Mexico has to offer that can't be had someplace else that is far more safe.
The risk/benefit evaluation does not favor going to Mexico at this time
as I see it. It is a vacation for Christ sake,
who wants to be constantly concerned about their health
and welfare on vacation unless the place is really special?

Well, I agree with your general position qua safety,
but if the vacation is for CHRIST 's sake,
then I imagine a trip to the Vatican is in order, rather than Mexico.

It probably has a lower crime rate,
tho I don 't know the annual statistics.

David
0 Replies

Robert Gentel

4
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:31 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
I don't know why you're arguing; it's common knowledge that violence has escalated. There are stories everywhere about tourists being robbed and injured, if not killed.

Common knowledge often doesn't always have a basis in reality. The statistical likelihood of being harmed in Mexico is insignificant compared to the statistical likelihood of being harmed doing a lot of other things that people in this thread wouldn't be going apeshit about. So it is relevant to point out the statisticial insignificance that you guys are exaggerating.

Quote:
That is idiotic. The point is not the likelihood of you dying in a car crash on vacation, but the amount of danger you might be in. Get real.

I don't agree that what he said is "idiotic". Quantifying the risk through statistics is a hell of a lot better than the ipse dixits trying to contradict it. I find the statistically quantified risk more convincing than "Mame said not to".
0 Replies

OmSigDAVID

1
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:54 am
I think that in the end,
we will be guided in our vacation choices
by our gut intuition of what kind of situations we wish to put ourselves into.

I 'll feel better in Las Vegas or Disneyworld.

David
0 Replies

OmSigDAVID

1
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 11:46 am
When I visit an alien city,
I take a false wallet with some local cash,
but indigenous criminals, pickpockets,
with American cash, licenses, personal effects, etc.

David
Robert Gentel

2
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 11:52 am
@OmSigDAVID,
This is a very good strategy. In Brazil I did similar things that I think was more important for my safety than carrying a gun would have been.

And incidentally, Brazil has always been about as dangerous as Mexico is during this violence spike, but thousands of Americans visit without the same concern just because the Brazilian violence isn't playing out on American TV screens.

Mexico's violence is getting a lot of play, and it's horrible what is happening to the society, but statistically it's still not any more dangerous than many of the places I've lived or visited.
ebrown p

3
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 12:09 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
There is no such thing as an alien city.
When you visit a city, you are the alien.
OmSigDAVID

0
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 08:06 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

There is no such thing as an alien city.
When you visit a city, you are the alien.

Not from the perspective of where I am posting;
i.e., from home.
0 Replies

ossobuco

1
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 08:15 pm
Cities, how they work, how they look, are one of my main interests in life. I'm a mad city walker...
On the other hand, I do my walking mostly in the morning and early afternoons. I've also developed a pretty nifty sense of direction over the years, am rarely lost, thus rarely look lost.
ossobuco

1
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:09 pm
@ossobuco,
I guess I should add that in places where I don't just blend, I do use a waist packet for key stuff, and have a purse that is stealable. This has actually worked when I was surrounded in Rome.
OmSigDAVID

1
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:17 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

I guess I should add that in places where I don't just blend,
I do use a waist packet for key stuff, and have a purse that is stealable.
This has actually worked when I was surrounded in Rome.

Surrounded by WHAT ?
ossobuco

1
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:28 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Zingari. People of roma extraction - well, this happened to me several times, until the last time I went to italy, when italians asked me for directions as I looked, over my visits, less and less like a tourist -

The first time it happened it was with a woman and perhaps three children of say, six to nine. I'd read my guide books, I knew it was my sneakers that were the clue, and I had a waist pack with credit card, etc. I also had a "fanny pack" with film, tampax, and a kleenex packet. The woman got into my fanny pack and, no luck, wafted off in her chiffon like clothes.

I'll add I have some sympathy to roma. I was just aggravated that particular day.
0 Replies

OmSigDAVID

1
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:38 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

This is a very good strategy. In Brazil I did similar things that I think was more important for my safety than carrying a gun would have been.

And incidentally, Brazil has always been about as dangerous as Mexico is during this violence spike, but thousands of Americans visit without the same concern just because the Brazilian violence isn't playing out on American TV screens.

Mexico's violence is getting a lot of play, and it's horrible what is happening to the society, but statistically it's still not any more dangerous than many of the places I've lived or visited.

Thank u.

I 've heard that about Brazil, tho not recently.

Maybe around 20 years ago, a young lady who was born there
and visits it occasionally, said that in its capital city,
the people only slow down for red lights,
because (she alleged) if thay stop there is too much chance
of being robbed at the point of a submachinegun.

I have no information as to how safe or risky it is now.

It is not hi on my list of travel destinations.

However, I 'd LOVE to visit Egypt for its antiquities.
I 'd really enjoy seeing the pyramids.

Does anyone know how bad the crime rate is
in the tourist areas of Egypt ?

David
ossobuco

1
Mon 6 Apr, 2009 11:10 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
There are always stories. I can tell about a rape story in mexico, it was the taxi driver, which I heard when I was first paying attention, which would have been the late sixties.

My only personal threat happened in my own neighborhood, then in the san diego area, no fault of the neighborhood.

I dunno --- be wary, and be open. Live a rich life.

OmSigDAVID

1
Tue 7 Apr, 2009 02:35 am
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

There are always stories. I can tell about a rape story in mexico, it was the taxi driver, which I heard when I was first paying attention, which would have been the late sixties.

My only personal threat happened in my own neighborhood, then in the san diego area, no fault of the neighborhood.

I dunno --- be wary, and be open. Live a rich life.

I will be wary, and live a rich life,
here n everywhere.

What did u mean about being open?

David
0 Replies

ebrown p

2
Tue 7 Apr, 2009 04:55 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I visited Egypt several years back. There are constant warnings in Egypt about political violence-- it is not the safest place to go (particularly if you stray from the big tourist areas). However, since tourism is a big part of their economy they protect tourists-- soldiers with automatic weapons were visible on nearly every block.

My most frightening personal story happened in Cairo. I was taking a taxi at night to the Cairo airport to pick up a companion (I arrived a couple of days before she did). The airport is away from the city on a lonely road.

The taxi was stopped by a few armed men in military fatigues with some sort of big guns. One of them pointed his weapon toward the driver and they started yelling at each other in Arabic (at least I think it was Arabic, but I didn't understand a word). I was trying to shrink in the back.

After what seemed like a long time of tension, the driver was pulled out of the cab. Just then one of the military guys sees me cowering in the back seat and-- get this-- he laughs. He motions with the business end of his rifle that I should proceed down the road; and I was very happy to get out of there. I walked the rest of the way, and to this day I have no idea what happened to the poor driver, or why. (I guess I should be happy I got a free cab ride).

Life is for living. You aren't free from risk even when you stay at home. I wouldn't give up any of these experience even if you were.

0 Replies

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