18
   

One morning in Mexico....

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 11:02 am
@ebrown p,
When both the American government and the Mexican government are in agreement that the security situation for foreigners in Mexico is getting bad fast, the smart take notice. This is not about sensationalized news clouding our vision. The situation has changed for the worse over the last few months, and it was not all that great before then.
TTH
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 11:20 am
@hawkeye10,
Then I guess I am not smart since I go to Mexico every year and will be leaving to go back there in a couple of weeks. I have walked around town by myself at 2-3:00 am.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 11:22 am
@TTH,
Good for you TTH. Can I ask where you will be traveling?
TTH
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 11:23 am
@ebrown p,
Cabo San Lucas and maybe San José del Cabo
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 11:25 am
@TTH,
Isn't that where Slappy got picked up and invited home by a young woman he just met in a bar?

Whatever made you decide to go there?
TTH
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 11:29 am
@ebrown p,
I like it there and have been going for years. I only had trouble 1 time and that was with the Federal Police. I was by myself and there were 2 of them.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 12:24 pm
@dagmaraka,
dagmaraka wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:

Me neither, dagmar, but in Mexico it could cost you your life.


or in India, Turkey, Morocco...wherever. Not if you do your homework though.
I travel a good part of the year and have yet to feel unsafe.
I go to the areas stricken with strife more often than not.

What is this "HOMEWORK" that everyone keeps posting about?
Ascertaining the worst crime ridden areas ?





David
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 12:40 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Before I go to a new area, I read about it and have a basic plan of what I am going to do there. I also learn the basic layout of the city; where I am staying, where are the business/tourist areas, where are the specific places I want to visit and where are the shady areas.

Taking a little time to do homework to learn about the place you are going to visit, and coming up with a basic plan, means that I won't be wandering around aimlessly or stumbling on a dangerous area I wasn't expecting.

Moving and acting with purpose is the best way to reduce travel risk (other than cowering in fear at home).
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 12:50 pm
My daughter got married at a resort on the Mayan Riviera. Two or three years later a Canadian couple were murdered at the same resort. They were there for their daughter's wedding. This was a pricey place, gated, with security. Who killed them? Well, I've not kept up on it but initially the (incompetent? corrupt) Mexican police insisted it was two female Canadian tourists staying at the same resort. I believe it eventually turned out to be a driver from the resort. Fuzzy on the exact details but it was definitely not the two female tourists they insisted it was. Screwed up the lacksadaisical investigation they started, Cdn embassy had to get involved, much outcry about it all up here. Shoddy, lazy, incompetent police there.

I've been to several parts of Mexico over the years (Puebla, Mexico City, Cozumel, Playa, and parts of the Riviera, not to mention some seedy border towns - Nogales comes to mind, Laredo, etc)... and I probably wouldn't rush to revisit due to the increasing violence there. Yes, it's not everywhere, but it is much more prevalent and out-of-control than it was. It scares me and I don't scare easily. I'm just not stupid. I just don't feel it is as 'safe' as it used to be. I have a former BIL living in Bucarias who feels safe, but he lives there and knows what he is about. I, on the other hand, don't.

That Cdn couple (the parents) could have been me. Same resort. Same reason for being there. Scary.
Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 12:56 pm
For one, just because someone goes to an area multiple times with nothing bad happening doesn't make it safe. I grew up in a city with gangs, drugs, and a lot of crime, but nothing terrible happened to me. That doesn't make it Beverly Hills. People still get murdered, assualted, ect., many times in a year.

And the only thing Cabo and Juarez have in common is they're both in Mexico. But they're night and day. From what I 'felt,' Cabo was pretty safe. Much safer than Cancun, which is also a tourist area. I didn't feel uncomfortable taking a cab to the hotel from downtown at 5am in Cabo by myself...Cancun, I stuck with the public bus. Juarez, I would never get in a cab, or find myself there at night. Still, wandering through that neighborhood at 7:30am by myself wasn't the best feeling, seemed very 'blue collar,' even for Mexico.

Point is, you can't say "Mexico" is safe or not safe. It's a big f'n COUNTRY. There are areas where the media is not exaggerating about the dangers, but it's not everywhere there.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 12:56 pm
@Mame,
Besides, there is very little that Mexico has to offer that can't be had someplace else that is far more safe. The risk/benefit evaluation does not favor going to Mexico at this time as I see it. It is a vacation for Christ sake, who wants to be constantly concerned about their health and welfare on vacation unless the place is really special?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 12:58 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Before I go to a new area, I read about it and have a basic plan of what I am going to do there. I also learn the basic layout of the city; where I am staying, where are the business/tourist areas, where are the specific places I want to visit and where are the shady areas.

Taking a little time to do homework to learn about the place you are going to visit, and coming up with a basic plan, means that I won't be wandering around aimlessly or stumbling on a dangerous area I wasn't expecting.

Moving and acting with purpose is the best way to reduce travel risk (other than cowering in fear at home).


How do u ascertain
the shady areas ?
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 01:42 pm
@Mame,
Let's get some perspective here. One murder of a Canadian couple (although tragic) isn't a good way to gauge risk.

There were just shy of 6 million American visitors to Mexico last year. Out of this there were fewer than 40 murders, many of these were centered in Juarez and Tijuana (and I suspect that some of these were Americans working in the drug/arms trade).

This means that even including the Americans who are working with the Narco-traffickers (which I assume makes you more likely to get murdered)... the chance of being murdered is less than 1 in 100,000.

Your chance of dying in a car accident this year is more than 10 times greater than your chances of getting murdered in Mexico.

Now sure... there is some risk (particularly if you add in deaths from other causes such as car crashes, disease or suicide)-- but traveling to Mexico (outside of a few areas) is a perfectly sane thing to do.

Hawkeye raises the right question about risks vs. benefits

Considering that the risk of trouble is quite low... and the fact there are gorditas (I mean the food) and Mariachis and Cabrito with great people and history and culture-- all close to the US with an exchange rate that makes everything affordable. I disagree with his conclusion.


0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 01:45 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
David, It is not that difficult. The information is in guidebooks and on the internet.

There are also general rules-- upscale business/tourist areas tend to be safe. Poor neighborhoods tend to be less safe. Areas where there are drugs and prostitution are unsafe.

This is true of US cities as well.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 02:07 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

David, It is not that difficult. The information is in guidebooks and on the internet.

There are also general rules-- upscale business/tourist areas tend to be safe. Poor neighborhoods tend to be less safe. Areas where there are drugs and prostitution are unsafe.

This is true of US cities as well.



I am sure that the general rules r accurate. Thanx.
0 Replies
 
TTH
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 01:28 am
@ebrown p,
Areas where there are drugs & prostitution is in the "upscale business/tourist areas".
I went to Cancun last year and anyone can buy drugs there or in Cabo right in the middle of the day in the tourist area.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 05:20 am
@TTH,
I have not been to Cabo or Cancun (which are distinct in being areas that cater to American tourists).

I have been to Torreon and Monterrey (and several other non-tourist cities). In the business/tourist areas (and Monterrey is a historical city with a moderate tourist industry) there were neither drugs nor prostitutes.

Perhaps prostitutes go where the American tourists are...
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 06:35 am
Here are a couple of travel advisories about Mexico that illustrate my point. I wasn't talking about just that one couple, who are mentioned in the first advisory, but the increase in general.

U.S. Issues Travel Advisory For Mexico
Friday February 27, 2009
CityNews.ca Staff
If you're among the scores of high school and college students that plan to head to Mexico for spring break, you may want to think twice this year.

Escalating drug violence has prompted a travel advisory from the U.S. State Department and universities across the country.

And while Ottawa stopped short of advising its citizens not to travel to the volatile region, Foreign Affairs does warn of the danger.

"Canadians travelling to Mexico should exercise a high degree of caution...due to high levels of criminal activity, some involving the use of violence," the website reads.

But the Flight Centre's Chris Perrotta says he hasn't noticed any change in travel patterns yet.

"I was in a resort just south of Playa del Carmen, which is on the Mayan Riviera - and nothing at all. There were tons of Canadians, tons of Americans. The hotel was at full capacity, and I felt no sense of danger at all."

More than 6,000 people died last year in a bloody war for smuggling routes among the country's drug cartels. They've been carrying out massacres and dumping beheaded bodies in the streets - even engaging in brazen shootouts with the military and law enforcement personnel.

Most of the drug violence is happening in border towns, and tourists generally have not been targeted. But there have been killings in the spring-break resorts of Acapulco and Cancun, well away from the border.

Ontario residents Rita Calara and Yoyo Manela were injured when a gunman fired into the lobby of an Acapulco hotel in February 2007.

Weeks before, two other Canadians died while vacationing in the area. The family of 19-year-old Woodbridge resident Adam De Prisco, killed in Acapulco, says he was beaten to death. But Mexican authorities say he was struck by a car. And Glifford Glasier of Chatham, Ont. was killed in Guadalajara after an apparent hit-and-run. His wife was also badly injured and left in a coma.

In 2006, Woodbridge couple Domenic and Nancy Ianiero was found murdered in their room at a resort in the Mayan Riviera.

from: http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_32467.aspx

~~~

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State Department issues Mexico travel advisory
12:00 AM CDT on Sunday, April 5, 2009
The Washington Post
MEXICO CITY " The latest travel advisory for Mexico from the U.S. State Department was issued Feb. 20.

"Recent Mexican army and police confrontations with drug cartels have resembled small-unit combat, with cartels employing automatic weapons and grenades," the advisory says. "Large firefights have taken place in many towns and cities across Mexico but most recently in northern Mexico, including Tijuana, Chihuahua City and Ciudad Juarez. During some of these incidents, U.S. citizens have been trapped and temporarily prevented from leaving the area."

The language used to describe the situation in Mexico is strong. "While most crime victims are Mexican citizens, the uncertain security situation poses serious risks for U.S. citizens as well," the alert says.

"Robberies, homicides, petty thefts and carjackings have all increased over the last year across Mexico generally, with notable spikes in Tijuana and northern Baja California. Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana and Nogales are among the cities which have recently experienced public shootouts during daylight ... in shopping centers and other public venues."

The State Department isn't advising visitors to avoid all of Mexico but is urging them to use extra caution and avoid specific locales and behaviors.

In Mexico, those behaviors include driving at night, buying drugs and visiting the state of Durango.

Details: http://travel.state .gov (click on "Travel Alerts.")

The Washington Post
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 07:22 am
@Mame,
Quote:

The State Department isn't advising visitors to avoid all of Mexico but is urging them to use extra caution and avoid specific locales and behaviors.


What is there to disagree with here?
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 08:51 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
How do u ascertain
the shady areas ?

Trees.
0 Replies
 
 

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