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ever look at old religions/alchemists and think they were just less informed scientists?

 
 
OGIONIK
 
Reply Sat 21 Mar, 2009 05:00 pm
i was reading up on alchemy for some odd reason, and it just sorta seemed they were trying to explain the world around them more.. definitively?

the elixir of life? one day we WILL live for a long ass time

we WILL be able to control matter.

It seems to me they were just off by a few centuries..
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Type: Discussion • Score: 4 • Views: 1,096 • Replies: 9
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Mar, 2009 05:15 pm
@OGIONIK,
I understand what you are saying, but there is a big difference between science, alchemy, and religion. Science attempts to explain natural phenomena through reason, logic and research.

Scientists understand that there is much that they do not know. Alchemy is based in "magic" which has no basis in fact. Religion relies on the supernatural, and explains away the unknown through faith.

I do believe that alchemy and religion were contrived by less sophisticated peoples who sought to understand the workings of the universe, and man's place in that universe.

What has always interested me is how a person with a scientific mind, could explain away the cognitive dissonance of having credence in scientific fact, yet espousing faith. To me, it is mixing apples with oranges!
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Mar, 2009 06:27 pm
@Phoenix32890,
do you see an evolution of logic int he processes of each?

alchemy, they observe, fire water air earth, creates life, in a sense, this is true..

we merely upgraded the process of observation, instead of 4 elements we have like 116? and instead of opinion, the observations have been verfied more thorughly.

i forget the number and i dont care to check lol.

And religion is based very loosely on observation, and is mainly random theories based off nothing except instinct.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Mar, 2009 06:45 pm
Alchemy to Chemistry to Particle Physics to..........?

Astrology to Astronomy to Cosmology to............?

Yes, there is a transition going forward.
No, the tools and disciplines used do not necessarily stay the same.
Yes there are truths to be found in all six as listed above.
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Mar, 2009 06:47 pm
@Chumly,
nice point.

i think near the end, or whatever its called, sciences will merge completely into something...

i mean math, chemistry, everything will boil down to one thing.

the god particle might be found, that could be a huge step./
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Mar, 2009 07:01 pm
@OGIONIK,
Yes, I did. Back probably in my first year of high school, I had to write a paper; I'm not sure which class, probably English. So, I went to the library, picked the first encyclopedia, and it opened up on Alchemy, so I wrote about Alchemy. I remember thinking what you are saying, and wrote to that effect. That must have given the nuns some minutes' pause.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Mar, 2009 07:17 pm
@OGIONIK,
There is no inherent reason why the Scientific Disciplines must condense down, in fact there is just as much likelihood (at this juncture) that the Scientific Disciplines will expand outward!

Some people seem to have an almost obsessive compulsion to try and oversimplify and over-condense.
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2009 01:22 pm
Newton spent more time on alchemy than he did on physics.
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mooglite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 09:32 am
@OGIONIK,
IMO it's a mistake to understand alchemy and old religions entirely in those terms, though some of the alchemists might have, the later ones more. Some of the more intelligent alchemists might have understood that through the use of symbols and rituals they were trying to effect a change in themselves rather than to understand the outside world. Jung writes about this quite a bit.

Again old religions/"primitive" rituals shouldn't be understood merely as a silly way of explaining phenomena scientifically, though up to a point they might have had that function too. Wittgenstein's "Remarks on Frazer's Golden Bough" is great on this, and there is a book called "Before Philosophy", by Frankfort et al, which is also good. Myth had wider and more profound functions than being the science of it's times. The old gods may have been replaced by a new kind fulfilling the same function - eg celebrities.
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NoName77
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2021 11:50 pm
Ok, if one is willing to be honest with self, as is biblically stated, “a house divided cannot stand”. 4 and 3 and 2 and 1.... Four Elements, The Trinity, Waters above and below, Earth comes out of the Waters.

Funny, Genesis 1:1-10, plainly lists out these Elements. The same Elements that alchemists, witches, and scientists, all used as a foundation, for a very long time. The question I have is, when did the Momentum of Force overtake the spiritual application of the Physics? This Momentum has gained more power per generation, for generations.

Separating the spiritual from the material only cuts of the life, cuts off the inflow, and thus things need to be Forced. Whereas before the Fall, there was no need to Force whatsoever. Was just based on Belief. As Jesus said in Matthew 8:13, “as you have believed, so be it done unto you”. Thus opening a Door for our exit of this divided system. But, this also fueled the other side’s “sorcery” as well.

By forcing the focus on the sensory data, and using sensory data to justify their scientific method, the people have unknowingly been ensnared in an infinite loop, an Ouroborus, gaining Momentum and becoming more Solid. Thus deceiving themselves, by a science so-called.

Whereas the alchemists and witches have actually “darkened the Path”, by claiming rights to the very “miracles” the Christian has Absolute Legal Right to.

I’m sure this could be looked at as wishful thinking on my part, but when put in context of the Bible, the Alchemy books speak volumes about how our drive-in movie theater actually works.

I’m sure I have said enough to be scoffed at. Maybe enough to encourage the Truth-seeker tho.

The Legality of what I am trying to explain is critical to understand, because not every door is a Legal Entry.

Oh there is a Science to the Theology. But without the Spirit, it is dead. So the real question is, what spirit are we obeying?
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