Patriot Act

Well, yes, it was passed by congress, but remember when. Something like 5 weeks after the attacks of 9/11? Both executive and legislative branches were under enormous pressure to do something. Anything. Congressmen had strong disincentive to appear weak on terrorism in any form. I wonder how they would vote if presented with the same bill today.

Well, at least that's how law and justice works: NULLA PEONA SINE LEGE. :wink:

Well. roger, it's easy.

All that has to be done is to have some loud mouth Alcoholic skirt chasing cheating manslaughterer like Ted Kennedy introduce a bill to repeal the Patriot Act. That's all that is necessary.

The Democrats will be able to get large numbers of Republicans to go along with them. don't you think?

Write to your Congressman and Senator and urge them to repeal the Patriot Act.

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

They would not want to carry the burden of guily and responsibility they would have IF there was another 9/11 that might have been stopped by some of the provisions of the Patriot Act.

What the left wing tends to forget is that there are three branches of government- Executive, Legislative and Judicial. There are checks and balances.

Why hasn't the ACLU tried to bring the "terrible, unconstitutional, unamerican, Patriot Act to the attention of the Courts so that it could be repealed?

Why not?

Because they know the courts would never declare it unconsititutional.

Patriot Act
Italgato -- Yes, the Congress approved this piece of legislation. The same Congress that gave George Bush permission to go to war. Both votes came at a time when the Congress -- and the whole nation -- were still in shock from 9/11 and were just not thinking rationally. As a Democrat I was appalled that no one would stand up to Bush and his team. I and millions of other people who were against the war felt that we had no representation whatsoever.

Now the tide is turning and people are seeing things more clearly. They are asking questions and figuring things out. How this will play out in 2004 remains to be seen, but it is going to be interesting.

Well, I for one am not going to wait- Shoesharper. I can't wait until we lose all of our freedoms.
Do you know how many freedoms my family has lost since the Patriot Act has been passed?

I just can't begin to count them. I really can't.

Therefore, I wrote to my Senators asking them to IMMEDIATELY push for a bill repealing the Patriot Act.

Should I hold my breath until it is introduced???

Yes.








You will, through that act, gain the ability to change color (though you only get to pick blue).

Please, Mr. De Kere. Don't be so cruel. I am sure you are a compassionate person. You know, of course, that I asked that question in jest. Is that not allowed?

My Senators, unfortunately, do not do what is "right" but what will get them the most votes.

They will not introduce a bill to repeal the Patriot Act.

Neither will anyone else before Nov. 2nd 2004.


And, A prediction, when Bush is re-elected in 2004 and the Republicans gain seats in the Senate and the House, Patriot Act II will be introduced and passed.

I, in turn, answered in jest. It was not a particularly difficult nuance of the English language to pick up on. ;-)

I beg to differ. Some cannot understand the full meaning of:

A pestilence on him for a mad rogue. This same skull was Yorick's skull, the king's jest.

That's no nuance. That's genius!!!

I don't want to digress on this thread too much, if you'd like to discuss the nuance of humor I'd be glad to follow you to a thread of your creation on the topic.

A non-political discussion with you would probably be refreshing.

True- Mr. de Kere: If I may borrow from Polonius-

I am indeed able to discource on tragedy, comedy, history, pastoral, pastoral-comical, historical-pastoral, tragical-historical, tragical-comical-historical-pastoral, scene individable, or poem unlimited.

I would like that, but I find so few that are capable.

Only one way to find out.

And what would that be, Mr. De Kere?

Are you saying that a mere recitation of ideas or literary content on these threads would bring interaction?

I find that many are fearful of interaction epecially when it become clear to them that they cannot keep up.

roger! a treat to see you again...

Might I offer up a further rationale for vigilance on this act, or for any which may resemble it. Recall firstly that the Patriot Act has already been engaged in an instance involving environmentalists (noted on stradee's Power Steer threads in abuzz) and that Richard Perle accused a New Yorker writer of being 'a terrorist' (for exposing Perle's conflicted financial connections)

Those of us who've spent time in the two different environments of a modern city and a largely frontier/unorganized territory (eg Alaska/Yukon) observe the differences in police or state presence in the lives of residents. Or one might compare early North America to the present. Increasing population, societal complexity and financial interests lead to increasing state presence. And, as in the case talked about here, conditions of emergency alter our perception of the proper balance between liberty and order.

As world populations increase - with the attendent strains on resources and on the environment, as the certainty of more massive famines and population displacements occur (along with the certainty of new and nasty viral or bacterial plagues moving worldwide) - there seems pretty likely to be the temptation of states to reduce liberty and to increase order/control.

Likewise, as laws are increasingly formulated by supranational bodies such as the WTO, where the concerns are financial matters, the temptation to think of movements such as the environmental movement as 'terrorist' groups will not lessen.

Roger! I agree with you again - I was about to post something in pseudo-Latin about the act of legislating in haste/deep emotion and repenting at leisure - but there you were - and far more pithily, too.

I suppose I might add my other comment, about law being a sort of perpetual motion seesaw across the thankless and eternally imperfect landscape of conflicting rights and emphases, but I now quite dispirited. LOL.


Craven and Italgato - if you really want the thread you are playing with the idea of, I would be only too happy to oblige! Just say the word.....do I get the popcorn and beer franchise if I do it?

Oh, blatham. You just don't know what else to say when the fickle finger of fate nudges us both into the same position.

roger

No, truly it is most agreeable to bump into you again. Though I do have, it's true, questionable standards.

Italgato, if you would start a thread on literature, I would certainly be a reader.
I am one of those who couldn't keep up, but I do enjoy reading good writing about the human condition.
I admire your writing skill and knowlege and would love to see it used in a less combative discourse.

It is my opinion, and at the moment it is only an opinion is that he ultimate goal of the Patriot Act is not to catch criminals or terrorist but to stifle dissent. This administration is actively attempting to dismantle the social protections put in place of the last 60 years beginning with the New Deal. These programs are so much a part of the assumptions we have about how the country works that most people simply assume that they well be there. When they discover that they are not there will be social unrest. The people advocating the present course of the Bush administration know that and the Patriot act provides the tools to put down that unrest. If these people have their way there will be nothing like the 60's protest culture in this country ever again.

If not, it could certainly be used that way. There are also valid reasons for much information to have a security classification. Both can be misused.