There's a big difference between UFO's and Arab-Americans. They've lost many of their Constitutional Protections. Another aspect of the Justice Department is their enforcing the maximum penalties for all crimes, and taking away the decision making by local judges. All crimes are not created equal, but the Justice Deparment wants to enforce federal laws as if they are. They are going to go after judges that do not follow their mandate. Watch out! You may be charged of a crime you didn't commit, but will be sentenced whether you're innocent or not - and that includes the death penalty.
Quote:...and that includes the death penalty.
Again, the curiosity....how is it that those like Bushy-Poo II and Arsecroft, who claim to be "Christians," are so in love with the idea of kiling others?
Shoesharper wrote:
Perception -- You ask how many instances have there been of abuse. I would ask you how many instances have there been of terrorism prevented?
The first is a tangible and you should be able to give all of them to support your argument.
Your second question deals with elements that are intangible and will never be known except as of this moment no second attack has occurred therefore Ashcroft's efforts and the intent of Congress when enacting the Patriot Act, must be considered a success.
The Patriot Act could be considered a "War Power" I suppose except that Congress has not given it that status----and they must make that determination.
Quote:no second attack has occurred therefore Ashcroft's efforts and the intent of Congress when enacting the Patriot Act, must be considered a success.
That is falsely attributing success to a program without any possible way to prove its veracity. Without evidence that other events have been attempted and thwarted, one cannot judge the effectiveness of PATRIOT at preventing attacks. One could similarly say that thanks to NORAD there have been no alien invasions!
Curiosity re killin' others ... odd, isn't it, that its common among those in favor of the death penalty to oppose abortion, and for abortion advocates preponderantly to oppose the death penalty? Some kind of disconnect goin' on there, I think.
Again, the curiosity....how is it that those like Bushy-Poo II and Arsecroft, who claim to be "Christians," are so in love with the idea of kiling others?
The name calling and the hysterical comments have begun again-----time for me to take another break
Dunno 'bout space aliens, but NORAD gave the Soviets some indigestion.
It is, but then again many do not consider abortion a killing (similar to how they do not bemoan loss of life from masturbation). Viability sounds like a silly criteria for this while the instinct is to consider the fetus alive but some consider it important.
Quote:(similar to how they do not bemoan loss of life from masturbation).
Sehr amusant! Expecially since I was just reading a list of guidelines for young novices at Fulda,and it condemns "self-abuse" for just this reason!
Although I don't see the far right as a horribly orgasmic bunch. I'm not overly sire how Arsecroft managed to reproduce. It must have been a true trial that he undertook solely for his faith.
timberlandko wrote:Dunno 'bout space aliens, but NORAD gave the Soviets some indigestion.
Indeed. Crediting US strategic doctrine of the 1950-80s with preventing war is a valid response. Crediting PATRIOT with preventing another attack, given the scarcity of information, is not a valid response.
Thanks Blatham Excellent links. Especially chilling was the comment on how evidence that might show someone to be innocent has not been deemed important enough to grant folks a new trial.
How much of death sentencing is social engineering by another name?
When did Canada (eh?) give up the death penalty?
Death Penalty
timberlandko -- Ye Gods! I support abortion and the death penalty. Does that mean I am a killer coming and going?
shoesharper, I'm in the same camp, but it's because I think that people like Tim McVeigh deserves the death penalty. He's a sad excuse for a human, and this world is a better place without him (or his kind).
You know guys, if it produced a reduction in the frequency of the crime, I'd be for it to. But every study I've seen claims no reduction is discernible. Thus the penalty is merely vengeance.
c.i. -- Couldn't agree more. People like Timothy McVeigh and Ted Bundy need to be removed from the gene pool, as it were. They showed no mercy -- so should they expect any from society? I think not.
blatham wrote:You know guys, if it produced a reduction in the frequency of the crime, I'd be for it to. But every study I've seen claims no reduction is discernible. Thus the penalty is merely vengeance.
It also has been shown to be more expensive than incarceration even when the implementation is fraught with error (note that the call to reduce the cost would incraese the margin of error).
blatham, I'm not looking at it from the point of view that the death penalty would reduce the crime. Just think those guys with no respect for innocent human life doesn't deserve to live. As humans go, we're gonna continue to have murders no matter what the consequence.
Mr. De Kere takes Mr. Perception to task for saying that since the Patriot Act has been in force there have been no attacks and therefore indicating that the lack of attacks is due to the Patriot Act.
Mr. De Kere is correct in saying that Mr. Perception is engaging in a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy.
However, neither can Mr. DeKere hold that the fact that we have not had another attack has NOT been because of the existence of the Patriot Act.
We simply do not know.
However, it is more than likely, IN MY OPINION, that the American Voting Public( which has only a few members of the ACLU among it) will make a connection, however possibly erroneous, and will credit President Bush AND the Congress of the United States with the passage of a good law.
I am astonished to see that discussion of the virtues or vices of the Patriot Act almost never include the critical point that the President cannot put such a law into effect alone. He must obtain the assent of Congress.
Of course, the Patriot Law passed by an incredibly large margin- 98-1. ( Sen. Finegold was the only one who voted against it).
